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-   -   Cop pulls gun on Motorcyclist (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=537620)

island_dude 04-19-2010 06:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nocarrier (Post 5304723)
Have to totally agree with the cop on this one.

The cop never pointed the gun at the biker. He merely pulled it out, assessed the situation and re-holstered his side arm as soon as he determined that there was no threat.

Do you really expect the officer to wait until it's too late to pull out his gun? Besides domestic violence, traffic stops are one of the deadliest jobs that cops have to do. Being a cop is a deadly thankless job. People hate cops and some even want to kill them. Pulling his gun out was totally TOTALLY justified. Furthermore, during that stop, the cop was in a very dangerous tactical position exiting his vehicle positioned in front of the motorcycle. He lacked both cover and concealment. The cop has to always protect himself and that means always having the upper hand.

If you notice, the bike is backing up and it almost appears as if the biker is attempting to run. Perhaps risking peoples lives in his attempt to elude the officers. Seemed like a real high priority to stop him before anyone got hurt.

A common thing that bikers that are going to run do; is pull over and wait for the cop to exit the car and then suddenly take off.

Giving the order to get off the bike first is human nature in a stressful situation. I did hear him say he was state police within a few seconds.

Ever wonder why a cops retirement is so good? Well it's because statistics show that the average officer only lives about 5 years after retiring. Most die of heart attacks or suicide. Wonder why?

A lot of people don't realize but intimidation and fear is a very real fact about successful police work. If you are law abiding citizen you have nothing to worry about. But criminals should be crapping their pants at the mere sight of a police officer.

There is a price to pay for a civil and orderly society. Would you rather the police run around town passing out buttercups and silver stars instead?

You can't be serious. He is in an unmarked car, not wearing a uniform or displaying a badge. He is brandishing a gun and he made no attempt to identify himself until he was physically in contact with the bike.

The cop, if you can call a dxxless wonder like that, was looking to mix it up. I am sick of runing into power hungry POS cops. This guy looked and acted like a common street thug and not a trained professional. There is nothing that indicates a threat to the cop.

Tobra 04-19-2010 07:01 PM
I don't know if all police die young, but I guarantee the off duty guy who is irresposible with his weapon will never survive to retirement.

stomachmonkey 04-19-2010 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nocarrier (Post 5304926)
Yes he is out of uniform and in an unmarked vehicle. I'll give you that. But the biker was speeding excessively and doing stunts which in most cities is CRIMINAL.

Every criminal offense justifies a gun?

Furthermore, the fact that the biker is doing this crap on city streets by default is putting innocent people at risk. The Officer has a DUTY to keep the public safe from immediate serious harm. If in plain clothes or not he has that duty. I'm not saying that this gives the officer the right to stop people and jump out for the slightest infractions. But if someone is driving in a manner to put people in danger, he had every right to stop that guy. That bike is a freaking 600lb projectile!

He did not stop the guy, the guy was stopped. If he was half a cop he already had the plate number. Plenty of municipalities that do not allow their officers to pursue because it increases the risk to the general public. If the guy runs he does not run fast for long. He's going to look for distance then he's going to look to blend in by driving with the flow of traffic. Run his plate and pick him up at home later.

What if someone you loved got hurt because of some a-hole doing wheelies and hauling a$$ around town?

Then he deserves jail time. Considering he was cited and let go he it appears he committed a moving violation. Are you advocating the laws need to provide stiffer penalties for speeding? Mandatory jail time, say 2 weeks?

If anyone of you ACTUALLY paid attention, the biker started backing up as if to flee even BEFORE the cop got out of the car. Once again proving this guy needed to be stopped.

Ever heard the saying "driving a car is like having a loaded gun?"

As for the comments about cops dying. NO I don't have an actually study folded in my back pocket for such events. But I can tell you this. I've know enough cops that have died of heart attacks, have heart problems, or have committed suicide than I'd really care to discuss.

However, I did google it and this is one of the first links that came up www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/pr/109485.pdf

Funny, it's a study about cops dying at an average of 4-5 years after retirement.

There were many other links to studies. Read them or STFU!

Seems to me like this would be a main factor the cops union fight for such good retirements.

I'm not sure if the above link worked. But google it for yourself.

Oh, and as for the hardcore criminal that isn't afraid of cops. Well he doesn't give 2 **** about you or your family as well. But you might, after you become his victim. You see when there is no fear of consequence this is what you end up with. A repeat offender and a menace to society. It's getting worse and that's because people like you can't understand the concept that these people only respond to what they know. And that is fear, intimidation, and violence. NOT BULLYING.

You said one thing there that I agree with, fear of consequence. What consequence does pulling a gun create? Are you suggesting that officers be empowered to impart consequence at their whim? I don't think so.

v. bul·lied, bul·ly·ing, bul·lies
v.tr.
1. To treat in an overbearing or intimidating manner. See Synonyms at intimidate.
2. To make (one's way) aggressively.
v.intr.
1. To behave like a bully.
2. To force one's way aggressively or by intimidation:

Bullying is for the insecure and the weak. Yeah there are cops out there who like to throw their weight around for no reason. But there is a time and a place for everything.

Lastly, As for the cop sating he was "state police" withing a few seconds. Well, in an ideal world he should identity himself first. But like we all noticed, he was probably off duty, in plain clothes and in an unmarked car. Not in "police" mode because he probably wasn't on the job at the time. Could have it been better. Well, there is always room for improvement and I'm sure you guys don't do your job 100% all the time. And you're not under this stress.

Lame excuse. When he decided to pull in front of this guy and exit his vehicle to enforce the law he consciously went right back on the job.

So until you've had to show up on stabbings, gun shots, drive by's, seen people disemboweled, see kids killed, raped, abused, watch your friends die and commit suicide at your job, try and not be to critical of the cop who may be the next one to save your A$$.
That's why I support the 2nd. I'm not waiting for the police to show up to find me and mine dead.

stomachmonkey 04-19-2010 07:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nocarrier (Post 5304926)

As for the comments about cops dying. NO I don't have an actually study folded in my back pocket for such events. But I can tell you this. I've know enough cops that have died of heart attacks, have heart problems, or have committed suicide than I'd really care to discuss.

However, I did google it and this is one of the first links that came up www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/pr/109485.pdf

Funny, it's a study about cops dying at an average of 4-5 years after retirement.

There were many other links to studies. Read them or STFU!
LOL

Did you actually read the PDF cited in your link? Cause I just did.

It actually debunks your 5 year position and asserts that retired cops on average live LONGER than the average population.

There is one age group that falls into the 5 year mortality rate but the rate is consistent with other civil servants retiring in the same age group.

So maybe you should read it or just STFU.

MotoSook 04-19-2010 08:11 PM
I'd be tempted to launch my bike into that guy's chest in certain neighborhoods. There was no way to tell in the video if the guy is a cop until he was touching the bike. He could be a jacker or a raging civilian. As soon as I saw a gun without proper ID the bike would have been wheel up and headed for the mofo. I'd rather take my chances in court than risk getting shot by some nut with a gun.

The biker was bcking up - if some blacked out vehicle boxes you in what would you do? Wait for something bad to happen?

The idiot cop knew he was too hot when he saw the marked car pull up. His demeaner was immediately changed.

I had a hot head cop follow my thru a light as it turned from green maybe 50 feet before I entered the intersection. He was less than 20' behind me. If I had slammed on my brakes my bike and me would have been a hood ornament. He had the balls to pull me over even though I cleared the intersection before the light turned red. I was pissed before I could stop the bike knowing damn well I had not commited a movng violation and could have be run over by the jackass if I didn't know he was there and tried to stop.

As soon as he gave me an opportunity to speak I cited the state vehicle code and he could only retreat to his squad with my DL and insurance card. Knowing he was wrong he came back to my bike and said "I'm writng you a ticket." After he got got my attention and before I really got pissed off he said "I'm just joking." what a piece of sheet. He rides my arse and puts me in danger and that was all he could do....never apologized.

I'm a responsible rider and if I get hurt by a motorist or a cop because of their negligence I will be going after them with every suit I can dream up. If I could press charges for attemtped manslaughter you bet it will happen.

Jagshund 04-19-2010 08:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nocarrier (Post 5304926)
So until you've had to show up on stabbings, gun shots, drive-by's, seen people disemboweled, see kids killed, raped, abused, watch your friends die and commit suicide at your job, try and not be to critical of the cop who may be the next one to save your A$$.
Please. Just stop. If not for me, then for the children. Police are far from the noble beasts you're attempting to make them out to be, and if you cannot see that the vast majority of them come across as overbearing bullies then you're locked up in a room or on an island requiring rescue.

Most police are bullies and believe us all to be dumb sheep. The guy exited his car with his weapon drawn to coerce the rider- and there is no need for that in a traffic stop situation such as the one seen here. If there had been a recent shooting, traffic accident, mugging or such with a motorcycle fitting the description of the one here seen leaving the scene, then yes. But here- no.

Edit: Your report specifically states that,"officers have as long, if not longer, life expectancy than the population as a whole."

Jim Bremner 04-19-2010 09:42 PM
I'm sorry, The motorcyclist was out of line.

The COP was WAY THE F--k out of line and should be patrolling meters until retirement.

-10 donuts for this stop.

JavaBrewer 04-19-2010 09:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by speeder (Post 5304829)
What was this guy going to do if the guy on bike tried to flee, shoot him off the bike?? Jeezus...
+1 That cop is either way over worked or too stupid to do his job. Either way his ass is driving a desk and his weapon would be a pen - if I were in charge.

9dreizig 04-19-2010 09:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nocarrier (Post 5304723)

Ever wonder why a cops retirement is so good?
Yeah UNIONS
Well it's because statistics show that the average officer only lives about 5 years after retiring. Most die of heart attacks or suicide. Wonder why? I agree either donuts or there is a god


A lot of people don't realize but intimidation and fear is a very real fact about successful police work. If you are law abiding citizen you have nothing to worry about. But criminals should be crapping their pants at the mere sight of a police officer.

Are you ****ting me ?? Did you not see the video of those Md cops beating the hell out of that kid this week ??

There is a price to pay for a civil and orderly society. Would you rather the police run around town passing out buttercups and silver stars instead?
I"d rather the cops protect and serve, not play NAZI storm troopers

That cop is just another example of a small dicked, power hungry under educated C student with too much power.. He should be fired at a minimum..

So NoCarrier , how long you been a cop ??

nostatic 04-19-2010 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9dreizig (Post 5305225)
So NoCarrier , how long you been a mall cop ??
fixed it for you

i kid, i kid...

Steve Carlton 04-19-2010 10:32 PM
Even if that motorcyclist had a gun, I couldn't imagine him being able to shoot that cop before the cop would shoot him. I wouldn't think anyone would try, and in fact I think they'd be so caught off-guard by a cop like that they wouldn't have time to react.

How did the cops know how many computers to get a warrant for?

Scuba Steve 04-19-2010 10:40 PM
Quote:
Turns out there's a law against audibly recording someone without their consent. It's a felony.
So I assume the state has no dash cams that pick up audio? Nevermind that the recording was made in a public place?

nocarrier 04-19-2010 10:48 PM
No actually I didn't completely read my link and that was my foolish mistake.

The study was from a group dated from 1957 to some time in the mid 80's or so.


However this has changed quite a bit here are few articles. There was a study apparently done by the FBI done in 91 however that confirmed this.

It has been a huge battle between unions and municipalities over police pensions. The municipalities claim the officers are fudging facts and the PDs of course want higher pensions for the mortality rate.

Suicide takes toll on police - JSOnline

Here is one from the FBI but I haven't found the original document yet

The mystery within: understanding police suicide | FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin,The | Find Articles at BNET

Here is an article siting the fbi study.

Feature Story (February 23 - March 1, 1995)


Oh and if you stop the video at i believe 3:29 I think I see a badge on the officers belt

However, It does appear that his shirt fell over it in the beginning. So it's probably a moot point. The officer obviously could have done a better job displaying his badge if he's going to wear it.

Furthermore, If the officer decided to take it to that level, well then it's his stupidity for not following though with what he thought was worth stopping this guy for. Meaning if the officer thought that stopping that guy was necessary to preserve the safety of the public. The biker should have gone to jail. Just writing a ticket spells "i wasn't so serious."

Look, I am in no way disagreeing that there are more a-hole cops out there than good. Yeah a lot of them are attracted to the job for the power trip and can't tell the difference between a thug and a guy just hauling a little ass because he's late to work. Some people need tickets and jail time and some need a break. It's proper discretion is what makes a good cop.

Did this cop make some mistakes, sure. He was probably trying to cut the guy off in an attempt to keep him from running. Putting him in a very bad tactical situation. These stupid mistakes get cops killed.

Was he right in stopping this guy absolutely. The biker was clearly endangering others. It's not like the road was empty. There was quite a bit of traffic on that road. There are a lot of factors in determining when an off duty should get involved. I think this was one of them.

He never pointed his gun directly at the biker. It's not like hot got out of his car and took direct aim at the guy.

Believe it or not but the reason most state troopers wear those goofy hats is for intimidation. Most of them ride alone with their backup usually miles away. They are taught to have an attitude and be brash in order to intimidate a would be attacker. The uniform and the hat are part of that whole scheme.

Most troopers that I have met take this training way too far.

9dreizig- that would be a negative.

cairns 04-20-2010 06:21 AM
There's more here:
Officials Upset Over Posted Traffic Stop Video - wjz.com

Apparently the biker was an Air National Guardsman. Greg Shipley, MSP spokesman, of course defends the officer. I agree with the other sentiments- the biker was out of line but that officer should be sent to the rubber gun squad- he was obviously acting with emotion rather than professionalism and should not be entrusted with a weapon. IMO there was no reason a weapon needed to be pulled on a hot dog biker. Had the other officer not have showed up (note how demeanor changed almost instantly) I hate to think what could have happened.

No charges have been filed against the biker for filming the incident- hopefully the DA is smarter than that as I bet the case could go way up the chain and the law would ultimately be found unconstitutional. It would cost Maryland taxpayers plenty that's for sure.

stomachmonkey 04-20-2010 06:30 AM
Yeah see theres the real stupidity.

Dept is obviously embarrassed about their officers behaviour so they come after rider a month later in effort to intimidate him and shut him up.

But that only adds fuel to the fire cause now this thing goes viral and becomes very public.

Even if cop was really in the right the public backlash is not going to be pleasant and he may end up a lot worse off than if he had just let it die.

Handled poorly both times.

Sapporo Guy 04-20-2010 08:28 AM
I'm glad that off duty police are willing to work off the clock but shouldn't there be some type of protocol to be followed? Yes, these people are supposed to be there to protect us but does that allow them to play the same game as the bad guys? Yeah, it sucks when the bad guys can break the rules while the good guys have to play the rule book. But, once you let the good guys play bad what is left for us to hold on to?


Quote:
He never pointed his gun directly at the biker. It's not like hot got out of his car and took direct aim at the guy.
This makes it better? A gun in a holster with a hand placed ready for action is scary enough but a drawn gun with no identification is the realm and play zone of the reptilian mind -- run, fight.

Eric 951 04-20-2010 08:29 AM
That cop's behavior is the reason that "regular" folks are starting to join the ranks of those which dislike and distrust LEO.

m21sniper 04-20-2010 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ODDJOB UNO (Post 5304503)
nostatic.............lets do an experiment........................



why dont you go home today, whip out the old moto sickle, don yer helmet riding jacket gloves boots.................



and just go 86 mph or a 100 mph ,do some wheelies or some stoppies in front of any cop and see whats GONNA HAPPEN!


i would bet that be it undercover,marked, county/state you will get the exact same treatment.



now switch sides here for a moment and YOUR THE COP with a few years on the force. and a few domestics and felony traffic stops under yer belt.



i can GUARR-ANN-TEE you will be coming out of that car with your gun drawn! and hoping to gawd backup is arriving real damn soon. unless of course you enjoy felony stops not knowing who or what yer dealing with.



see thats whats nice about having an AZCCW, as soon as they start pulling you over they radio or punch in their laptop yer plate number for any wants and warrants, and they SEE RIGHT AWAY THAT IM A GOOD GUY with AN AZCCW PERMIT! and believe me as the sun comes up in the east everyday that makes a HUGE DIFFERENCE in how they go about there bizzness!
You're wrong dude.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nocarrier (Post 5304723)
Have to totally agree with the cop on this one.

The cop never pointed the gun at the biker. He merely pulled it out, assessed the situation and re-holstered his side arm as soon as he determined that there was no threat.

Do you really expect the officer to wait until it's too late to pull out his gun? Besides domestic violence, traffic stops are one of the deadliest jobs that cops have to do. Being a cop is a deadly thankless job. People hate cops and some even want to kill them. Pulling his gun out was totally TOTALLY justified. Furthermore, during that stop, the cop was in a very dangerous tactical position exiting his vehicle positioned in front of the motorcycle. He lacked both cover and concealment. The cop has to always protect himself and that means always having the upper hand.

If you notice, the bike is backing up and it almost appears as if the biker is attempting to run. Perhaps risking peoples lives in his attempt to elude the officers. Seemed like a real high priority to stop him before anyone got hurt.

A common thing that bikers that are going to run do; is pull over and wait for the cop to exit the car and then suddenly take off.

Giving the order to get off the bike first is human nature in a stressful situation. I did hear him say he was state police within a few seconds.

Ever wonder why a cops retirement is so good? Well it's because statistics show that the average officer only lives about 5 years after retiring. Most die of heart attacks or suicide. Wonder why?

A lot of people don't realize but intimidation and fear is a very real fact about successful police work. If you are law abiding citizen you have nothing to worry about. But criminals should be crapping their pants at the mere sight of a police officer.

There is a price to pay for a civil and orderly society. Would you rather the police run around town passing out buttercups and silver stars instead?
Are you serious with this post? This is a joke, right? You're pulling our legs...

For the love of god, please tell me you're not a cop.

Jeff Higgins 04-20-2010 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by nocarrier (Post 5304723)
Have to totally agree with the cop on this one.

The cop never pointed the gun at the biker. He merely pulled it out, assessed the situation and re-holstered his side arm as soon as he determined that there was no threat.
No, he re-holstered when the cop car pulled up so he wouldn't get caught needlessly intimidating a citizen with his firearm. His whole demeanor changed from "I'm gonna kick some ass..." to "I hope the camera didn't catch the gun...". Flucking cowardly, stupid little pissant. He has no business being a cop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nocarrier (Post 5304723)
Do you really expect the officer to wait until it's too late to pull out his gun? Besides domestic violence, traffic stops are one of the deadliest jobs that cops have to do. Being a cop is a deadly thankless job. People hate cops and some even want to kill them. Pulling his gun out was totally TOTALLY justified. Furthermore, during that stop, the cop was in a very dangerous tactical position exiting his vehicle positioned in front of the motorcycle. He lacked both cover and concealment. The cop has to always protect himself and that means always having the upper hand.
God damn I'm glad you are not a cop. In 34 years of driving, and driving some very fast stuff in a totally irresponsible manner, I have been stopped plenty. Never once, no matter how big of an ass I was driving like, has a cop ever felt the need to draw a gun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nocarrier (Post 5304723)
If you notice, the bike is backing up and it almost appears as if the biker is attempting to run. Perhaps risking peoples lives in his attempt to elude the officers. Seemed like a real high priority to stop him before anyone got hurt.

A common thing that bikers that are going to run do; is pull over and wait for the cop to exit the car and then suddenly take off.
And you think it is appropriate to shoot them so they can't get away? Are you the asshat cop in the video, or related to him in some way?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nocarrier (Post 5304723)
Giving the order to get off the bike first is human nature in a stressful situation. I did hear him say he was state police within a few seconds.

Ever wonder why a cops retirement is so good? Well it's because statistics show that the average officer only lives about 5 years after retiring. Most die of heart attacks or suicide. Wonder why?

A lot of people don't realize but intimidation and fear is a very real fact about successful police work. If you are law abiding citizen you have nothing to worry about. But criminals should be crapping their pants at the mere sight of a police officer.

There is a price to pay for a civil and orderly society. Would you rather the police run around town passing out buttercups and silver stars instead?
Unfortunately, it seems some have no clue whatsoever as to when to apply this "intimidation and fear". Many seem to love to use it during routine traffic stops. It's far easier to stike fear in some normal citizen by intimidating them that it is to do so with a real thug, who would probably just laugh.

Like I said, thank God you are not a cop. Or so you claim. I rather suspect you were, or would like to be, or fantasize about being one while making the rounds as a mall cop. Fortunately, the psych screenings are designed to weed out most guys like you. Too bad the one in the video snuck through. He has no more businiss being a cop than you have.

Geronimo '74 04-20-2010 12:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bremner (Post 5305210)
I'm sorry, The motorcyclist was out of line.

The COP was WAY THE F--k out of line and should be patrolling meters until retirement.

-10 donuts for this stop.
I agree with Jim on this one, both were out of line.
Bikerboy should get a ticket.
5-O should get a deskjob and possibly some counceling....


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