Remember Dueller's Vacation Home on Oil Beach? How about a boat?

[MotoSook]

A boat! Yes, I know....two best days about owning a boat....blahh blahhh blahhh


Here's my analysis:

A vacation home on the beach when we live in the Midwest is not a good purchase given the distance to the vacation home, say in Florida or the east coast. We could buy a lake house on Lake Michigan, but it'd be 4 hours or more to get to it, and the cost is still not great...to be on the water that is. I'll never be able to justify the cost to myself. I could buy a house "near" the lake for less, but I don't see the point of owning a second home up north, then still having to drive to the water. Basically, I wouldn't want a vacation home that isn't on the water, but the numbers won't add up for me to own a vacation home. I'd never use it enough to justify the cost. I'd rather just rent a house on the beach a couple weeks a year.

When I was younger I had the (maybe not so crazy) idea that I would graduate from college, and then buy a boat to live on on Lake Michigan along the Chicago coast. In the winter, I'd live with the parents or in some dump of an apartment while the boat is in storage.

Anyhow, that never happened as I ended up working no where near Lake Michigan or Chicago for several years. So now, with kids and a nice home in the burbs, I thought what if I had the boat (house) now as a weekend home on the water?

Something over 30 feet can sleep the family on weekends during the summers. The cost of a used 30'+ cruiser is $20K and up, but a good one doesn't appear to be over $50k. I've seen some vacation homes up north that are not that great go for several multiples of $50K. They'd need work to meet my expectations for that much money, and I'd have to hire someone to maintain it during the summer when we're not there for the few weekends of the yr. So a $50k boat doesn't look so bad. I wouldn't be spending $50K, but some 20-30K boat would do, and they appear to be in better shape than some homes I've seen. I'd also do my own maintenance on the boat.

The dock and storage fees are a killer though. In Chicago I calculated over $1600 a month for a downtown harbor and dry storage isn't any cheaper. So Chicago is out of the question, but there are plenty of lakes and water ways in the northern Illinois area that are within a couple hour's drive. The rates there have to be better. So if the rates are say $800/mo for dock and storage, it'd be $9600 a year, and it would be 20+ yrs before the total cost would come close to what a house on the lake or on the beach cost today.

So.. a house: lawn care, worries over the winter when we don't visit the home for months, home maintenance, etc. Large intial cost and propertie tax. Several times higher initial cost than a boat. Potentially long drive to get to the house and we'd probably not use it that much.

A boat: operating cost during the summer months...that's it (besides the harbor fee). A harbor on a nice body of water isn't that far, and we'd likely use it more weekends than a house.

We just had a baby, so this is not going to happen anytime soon, so I have a year or two to research and plan, but what do you guys think? I'm I nuts? What's wrong with a house ON the water?

I would probably spend more money on a racing hobby per year than what a boat would coat me, and I'd be able to get the whole family involved (wife won't go to the race track with me). I won't give up motorsports, but I'd do less of it.


Here are some local examples of a boat that I tink can be used as a weekend home...

36' Trojan TriCabin Flybridge Cruiser - $29600 (Northern Illinois)

31.5 Bayliner - $20000 (Racine WI)

1977 Trojan *** house boat *** - $25000 (foxlake)

34/39 ft cruisers express $30.500.00 OBO - $30500 (seneca il)

35' Chris Craft Aft Cabin - $39000 (chicago)

2000 30' Bayliner Cierra Sunbridge - $28500 (Fox lake)

I really like this one:

1974 Trojan F-32 (Super Clean) - $30000 (Fox Lake in IL.)

[RKC]

I'm in the same....er...boat! I could never make the numbers make sense for a second home near Chicago, and - truthfully - could never figure out a place I would want to go for most vacations....I like the variety of new places.

Plus the Baby Boomers got all the nice nearby Lake Michigan places (New Buffalo, St. Joe, South Haven, etc.) and little lake areas (Lake Geneva, WI or Culver, IN) 20 years ago and the prices are now crazy expensive for beach access. The best small lakes (Torch, Charlevoix, Glen) are 6+ hours away and so no good for a weekend.

My youngest is 8 and comfortable in the water, and I grew up sailing so I bought a Hobie Cat and put it on the Beach for fun weekends in Wilmette, IL, and either charter larger boats http://www.moorings.com or go to tropical sailing resorts http://www.beyc.com.

Since you want a powerboat, you might want to charter a boat first just to make sure everyone enjoys it (Moorings rents powerboats - and it is an easy sell to a spouse for a shakedown cruise in, say, the British Virgin Islands or the Great Barrier Reef). If they like the overnights, your plan sounds good. If not, you might want to just get a speedboat for day fun (or even rent one for a week or two - they do that up near Traverse City and will even deliver it and some jetskis to a nearby lake home rental - great fun and no hassle).

Don't know enough to give advice about the powerboats you listed. But, in any case, good luck with your plan!

[Tim Hancock]

All I know is that my dad (who is a boat afficianado) about vomits any time anyone mentions Bayliners. Apparently they are the Yugo/Ford Escorts of the boat world. Dad's dreamboats are the SeaRays in the 27'+ range.

[kaisen]

Around my area:

1989 Sea Ray 340 Sundancer

Classic 1963 Chris Craft 34' Sea Skiff Hardtop Cruiser

Chris Craft 34'

[dhoward]

Stay away from the Bayliners.
That cruiser's looks NICE.
Never underestimate the value of an electric head. NEVER.
Sea Ray's are nice, hold value, overall overpriced IMHO.

Until recently I've had boats in the 30-40 ft range on the Mississippi river for the past 30 yrs....

[dhoward]

Find a surveyor you trust.

[Jay Auskin]

We had a boat as a "vacation home" for quite a while. On Chain O' Lakes before they became a suburb. Then on Lake Michigan...St. Joseph, on St. Joe River. Lake Michigan is usually too rough to enjoy anything, spent too much time on St. Joe River.

Get a bigger boat than you need, realize it's a lot of work unless you want to always be paying someone.

As others said, stick to "good" makes. We had a Carver Santa Cruz in the 80's and pops sold it for exactly what he paid new.

I really liked the boat as a kid. My parents never seemed relaxed.

Former neighbors of mine in the city bought a sail boat and had it in Monroe Harbor at one of the buoys off shore. Consider Chicago as an option. Sometimes it's boring sitting on the boat, and you need to consider what's around you. It's the perfect summer condo in the city w/o the assessments and taxes. Also...as a tall fella, I have to say I prefer the (generally) taller headroom of a sailboat. Nothing wrong with putting around with the diesel when there isn't wind.

[A930Rocket]

What kind of FPG do boats like that get?









FPG = Feet Per Gallon....

[MotoSook]

I'm thinking boats are like race cars, better to buy someone's project or update boat.

Jay - One of the reason to moor it in Chicago is so it can be used as a crash pad for the guys . I agree, sitting on a boat wouldn't be much fun, esp. for the kids. If it weren't for the kids, I'd probably blow my money on exotic vacations, but taking 5-6 kids along would be too much. I'll save those vacation for when the kids are out of the house So a 2-3 hours drive to go hang out on the water for the weekend seems more ideal.

I'm prepared for the cost of ownership for the reasons I stated above when compared to a second home. When I was in HS I dated a girl whose parents owned a house on a lake in northern Wisconsin. They only really used it once a year for 2 weeks in July. I can't see myself doing that.

RKC - good post and good information. So true about the good real estate having been gobbled up around here. The wife is almost ready to sign on. She's become familiar with my ways and knows if I have my heart set on it it'll happen sooner or later. This will be later for sure, so I have a time to plan my move

Here's one that looks like it would fit my needs. What's not to like about aluminum?

39ft Marinette Yacht <<<<<&l - $35000 (New Buffalo, MI)

[KTL]

Don't do it.............. Boats beat cars hands down in terms of time investment. Money investment is probably a toss-up.

Been there done that- grew up with boats 'til dad had health problems in mid 80's. Big time & money investment and you have to be on the water/away from primary home to use it. At least with the race/track cars, you can tinker with them at home. With boats, gotta be on the water to work on them for the most part. Never really understood the Chicago marina gig. Lake is frequently too rough for the small pleasure boats and I always thought it was lame when people had boats that never left the marina!

Grew up with a number of different boats:

Mid-1970s = 20 ft. Cruisers Inc., then a 22 ft. Bayliner

Late 1970's to early 80's = 1979? 35 ft. Kingscraft houseboat- riveted aluminum can with a crappy Chrysler V8 (single) but one durable sucker! Man did dad upgrade that- added a flybridge, made cabin out of the front lower galley storage area, refurbished the entire interior. He loved that stuff.

Early 80's to 1985 = upgraded to 1972 43 ft. Nautaline houseboat w/twin Ford 302's & flybridge. Nice boat back in the day. Bought it from an airline pilot who spared no expense maintaining and upgrading it. Dad loved that thing. Finally acquired his target, a nice size twin engine (inboard) houseboat. Then dad's health issues put an end to it for us. It was good while it lasted though!

In between the houseboats we had a 16' Mark Twain runabout ski boat and then upgraded to a 1975 19 ft. Century. The Century rocked- 225 horse 302 with open exhaust. Back then, we thought we were pretty bad a$$ doing 50mph with the "Red Baron" hotrod boat. Well, until the rich punks with their Glastron jet boats would blow us out of the water!

Dad was a diehard boater- lived, breathed and died boats. Whole family life revolved around boat routine, which was as soon as the midwest winter breaks (sorta) in March/April you're at the marina every weekend until winter returns- late Oct. early November. So that blew the whole childhood/youth athletic oppotunity for me and my brother. Am I bitter? Nah. It may have deterred my social opportunities at home as a kid, but little did I know I lived the good life for a lot of years- got to drive (unsupervised) the ski boats all over the river at 11 yrs. old. Learned how to "drive" long before other kids even remotely were ready to take the wheel of large, dangerous, fast machines! At the time I didn't wholly appreciate what a great hobby my dad instilled on the family. Looking back I had it pretty good as a pre-teen. We were living the good life hanging out at Ottawa/Starved Rock marina & river area every weekend, rain or shine.

Point being is I am biased because i've been there done that. Talk of boats nowadays from the wife results in a "no @#$%ing way baby" from me. Already been thru that phase of my life long ago. Even as a kid I could see all the work it took to do it hardcore like mom & dad did. I'm not willing to put in that kind of effort. I asked my older brother (i'm 37, he'll be 40 soon) about his boat perspective in terms of whether he had any desire to get one. We share the same feelings- no desire on account of we got it out of our system when we were young I suppose? Well, my perspective is also biased on account of i'm already WAY immersed in the Porcha hobby!

Good luck dude!!!

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by Tim Hancock

All I know is that my dad (who is a boat afficianado) about vomits any time anyone mentions Bayliners. Apparently they are the Yugo/Ford Escorts of the boat world. Dad's dreamboats are the SeaRays in the 27'+ range.

+100 on the Bay...

Growing up, we had a Trojan that we took to the islands every summer..

[drcoastline]

Soukus,

I have never been boating on the Great lakes so I can not speak directly to costs and such in that area. But one thing I would say is buying a used boat from that area is probably a far safer bet then in most places. First it is fresh water so corrosion to the engines and systems should be minimal if the boat was taken care of. Corrosion is by far the most damaging to a boat. Secondly, I think over all the boats aren't subjected to weather as harsh as the East Coast or the South so the hull and top sides should not need extended refurbishing. Third The season is probably far shorter due to weather so the time a boat spends being used is probably many hours less then in other areas. I would think that a 10 year old boat may only show the wear of a 5 year old boat from another region.

I grew up in Wildwood, NJ a barrier Island about 30 minutes south of Atlantic City. I have been on boats my whole life. I have sailed the entire East Coast in all size boats and slept on many for extended periods, some as small as 20'.

A newer 30 foot power boat (not a sail boat) makes for a nice family weekender with most if not all of the amenities of home. Bathroom (head) with shower, kitchen (galley) with stove, fridge, microwave, sink H/C water. Dinette, A/C and heat. TV, DVD, Stereo etc. Storage for clothes, towels, toiletries, etc. A 30' boat will sleep 4 in relative comfort.

As for winter storage a 30' express style boat is easily trailer-able with a 3/4 ton pickup, suburban or the like. So if your HOA, town or municipality allows it you can block it right in your yard. This would allow spring commissioning and fall decommissioning to be done at your home where you have everything you need. As well as updates or repairs you may want to make. Most gas marine engines are based on car engines. Maintenance is relatively the same on the engines as with the car version just more often due to the increased loads being placed on the engines.

Sail boats are great fun but far more work then power boats (more work means less play) and have far less room in the same length. Sail boat hulls are designed for efficiency to move through the water. So a 30' sail boat may only have the interior space of a 20' power boat and less amenities. Like no A/C

As for docking keep in mind boat slips are generally rented based on a per foot basis with slips going up in length 5' at a time. So if you buy a 31' boat you may get bumped up to a 35' slip. Also at about 30' the width (beam) will start to get wider. A 29' are about 8' wide. A 30' boat will be about 10' and maybe 12', again moving you into a bigger slip. Also if you do intend to trailer most cabin cruiser style boats will be out of the question as they will exceed the 14' height allowed on roads and highways with out a permit. Sail boats and cabin cruisers will also limit your access to many areas when on the water.

Although I have a passion for old wood boats fiberglass is the way to go.

Just like buying a used Pcar invest in a PPI (survey). Even some of the good boats go bad and some of the bad ones are good.

Lastly, unlike a house a boat even what some would consider a big boat (30'-40') can be trailered as I said above. You can take it from time to time to other areas and put it in the water and explore. I have many friends with motor homes but their stories and adventures never seem to match our stories and adventures.

Living aboard is a great way to spend time with the family and meet new people. I guarantee your children and you will go away with experiences they and you will treasure forever. The two best days of owning a boat don't have to be the day you buy it and the day you sell it. Some of my worst days were the days I sold my boat and didn't have one for a while. There is nothing like being on the water.

[ODDJOB UNO]

me? my dad had boats. i had a boat. i was in the coast guard aux. loved it. butt i live in hell here and any chance i can get to the lake.....................IM OUTTA HERE!


screw the heat, screw sitting around the pool, ya cant go to the track, the only way ya go jeeping or dirty biking is have a destination that has water here in the dezert or your gonna fry yer brain. its damn hot here in the summers.


my last boat was a 26ft fourskinn(4winns) cabin pig cruiser. had a/c and generator and taught the kids to ski and fish and camp and swim like water dawggies.


trailering was a pain even with a 3/4 4x4 sirbourban(surburban) but we hit all the lakes for quite a few years. now i own the DOOLIE(duallie) FROM HELL and towing will be much much less of a white knuckle experience.



been planning this purely evil stunt for years. 382 fastech with twin 525EFI's and genset and a/c. 2003 or better. low hours. have it down to a science.


shakedown cruise at local lake 35 minutes away. then it goes to my marine wrench and spiritual coors light guru for the "everythang " fix. $2500 once a year for all new rubbers/hoses/bellows/plugs/oil/drives drained/blah blah on both engines. have drank alot of beer on this subject and ya just cant beat a merc 525EFI. then it goes to roo-selvelt lake and stays in dry storage and gets the piss run out of it. any problems we solve then. and next it goes to lake powell.


bottomline he told me "dont come in here with anything smaller or bigger than a 525EFI or yer 86'd". 75-80mph reliable power. hes been doing capsule boats and worked for formula racing for years. knows these boats inside and out.


wanna go faster buy a fountain. i want comfort. i will have a/c and genset or it aint happening.


wifey is all for it and is a water skiing fool.



lake powell is one the most beautiful lakes i have EVAR BEEN TO! spent 3 weeks there last time with my boat. been a bunch of other times in my life. wahweap all the way to hite marina in july. ONLY problem of the entire trip was (1) 40 amp fuse blew .


property big enough to stuff right next to my bedroom door and it will be gated guarded by "mr. snuggles" and" mr. benelli." will be able to plug shorepower into house and live on it(banished) while arguing with wifey.



slap some prop locks on and some drive locks,chain the damn trailer wheels and it aint GOING NOWHERE unless i sezz.


with these merc 525's its plug and play. download any over rev situations, how many hours run, what temp of # 8 cylinder on port side blah blah blah. feeking idiot proof if maintained and ya have 1/2 a brain about boats.



enjoying a boat comes down to preparation and not being a space case or a cheap azz.


ya got a potty for the wenches and showers, a microwave,reefer with ice maker. the wenches are happy and comfy and the boyz can HAUL ASS!



if you havent spent time at lake powell here in lil ol airy-zoney................well yer missing out on strippers big time. not strippers as in the bar dumbazz, STRIPPERS LIKE THE FISH! over the top fun fresh water wunderland.



the name on this one will be: "FOSSIL FOOLS" and have "sinclair" the green dinosaur wearing a sombrero,with a corona in his hand and a CEEGAR(cigar) hanging out of his mouth and the lil bubble caption "WHAT ME WORRY?"



see if ya buy a cabin here you have a very good chance of it burning up in a FIRE cuz alot of people here like burning up the forests. and this will be my 2nd home write off.



i cant think of anywhere else i can drink coronas, have a designated driver, have my pole in the water and look at bikinis all damn day long until i puke or RUN OUT OF BAIT!


dont give me that crap the (2) happiest days of boat ownership are when ya buy it and when ya sell it. only if ya sell it for a BIGGER FASTER BOAT!

[gprsh924]

I absolutely love being on the water. I go to my lake house nearly every weekend in the summer. Obviously the numbers don't work that well, but it is so much nicer to cruise up to the house on friday night, sleep in on saturday and be on the water all day than it is to wake up at the crack of dawn on saturday morning and tow the boat to the lake. We did that for 3 years and we started looking for a house almost immediately. We have had our house on Brown's Lake in Burlington, WI for 3 years now. It is about 1.5-2hrs away from you in Naperville Souk, same as it is for us in Batavia.

While I said I love being on the water, I think it would be relatively boring to have a cruiser. You go out, set the anchor, maybe put around the lake a little bit, nap in the sun. Its a great way to spend a day, but I would much rather spend the day skiing and tubing behind a 21-24ft wakeboard/ski boat. I think your kids would as well. The question to me becomes do your want your kids to enjoy the water, or to enjoy watersports? I feel the latter is infinitely more fun.

[JeremyD]

Bayliners are like Fiats. Boat ownership in general makes Porsche ownership look thrifty - trust me on this one.

The benefits are that you get away from it all - and it is something we do as a family.

my girls