Ex landlord won't give damage deposit back

[WolfeMacleod]

I knew it. He's a piece of dung...

He's citing reasons as the yard not being manicured after our move-out. Thing it, it was terribly overgrown and ratty when we moved into the place. The real estate agent who handled the initial rent agreement remembers it....
Back when I moved my friend in (the guy that didn't pay rent, remember?) I had him doing yard work on an almost daily basis to get the yard into shape. For several months... Loaded with blackberry bushes, and all manner of wildly growing plant life overtakign the yard.

Before the move-out, the yard was mowed, raked, and winter debris such as leaves and branches and such were picked up.

Question for the landlords here: Can he keep the DAMAGE deposit based on the yard? I've done a video walkthrough of the house that shows no damage, but also mentions areas of the house that needed - and didn't get- attention from the landlord when they broke... bad wiring, poor workmanship, etc...


Can he keep my deposit?

[motion]

Small claims court is your remedy.

[RWebb]

it's in Seattle? check and see if the city has a renter's ombudsman office or some other consumer protection for you

be sure you will be able to prove each fact -- e.g. will RE agent testify in court?

[WolfeMacleod]

Originally Posted by RWebb

it's in Seattle? check and see if the city has a renter's ombudsman office or some other consumer protection for you

be sure you will be able to prove each fact -- e.g. will RE agent testify in court?

Just North of Seattle, Randy. Edmonds.
The agent will make a statement regarding the overgrowth, yes. The Handyman who did the repairs will also make a statement about the electricity, non-locking door, etc, that he had to repair, but can't give a time-frame as to how long they were down - only about the time he was finally notified.
However.. I do have an electrician who did look at the outage initially, but was unable to do anything because he's not residential...

My garage door also didn't work due to rot - for about a year or so.

[LWJ]

In Oregon the case is that the landlord (this for residential- I don't know commercial) has 30 days to respond in writing about your deposit. If this does not happen, the tenant is due 3x the deposit regardless.

I would do some internet research and send an unemotional letter to the scumbag. On these types of letters I almost always CC an attorney. You do not have to sent it to the attorney or even have a relationship with them if you don't know one. It gets things moving.

Small claims is next. You will most likely win. It is fun to stick it to a bad person in court. A total waste of time but the satisfaction is worth it occasionally.

Best of luck,
Larry

[Zeke]

Can he keep your deposit?

Well, it's standard procedure to not refund. That's landlords for you. Nowadays, LL's figure the deposit is partial payment for getting the property ready to lease again plus the downtime while getting a new tenant in.

Fair? In most cases, no, in my experience. I have rehab'd many in my day. Usually the carpet is so cheap it wouldn't clean and the paint is so cheap it won't wash.

In reality, if you rent and are there for a year or more, expect the LL to try to keep the cleaning deposit. Fight it if you wish, it only costs your time.

I'm not saying it's right.

[Rick Lee]

My lease clearly states that the deposit is not to be used for the last month's rent. But my first tenants did just that, skipped out a week or two early, but left the place in pretty bad shape. They never tried to get any of it back from me, which is good.

When I was renting a year ago, I had the yard done by some pros before moving our. When we moved in, the yard was in rough shape, but the landlord sent over a crew to make it nice, so we'd be required to do the same on move-out. The non-refundable cleaning deposit of $400 was a little steep though. Didn't make me feel bad at all about taking just our belongings and locking the doors behind us. And he mailed us our deposit back a week later. He was one of the good guys.

[WolfeMacleod]

Originally Posted by milt

Can he keep your deposit?

Well, it's standard procedure to not refund. That's landlords for you. Nowadays, LL's figure the deposit is partial payment for getting the property ready to lease again plus the downtime while getting a new tenant in.
......
In reality, if you rent and are there for a year or more, expect the LL to try to keep the cleaning deposit. Fight it if you wish, it only costs your time.

He's not re-leasing the property. He's moving back in. The day after we were gone, he'd already gone in and tore down all the popcorn ceiling and re-started the remodel that was seemingly abandoned before we'd moved in.

There was no cleaning deposit if I recall.. only a damage deposit. I'll look back though...

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by milt

Can he keep your deposit?

Well, it's standard procedure to not refund. That's landlords for you.

BS. As a landlord, first impressions are important. So are last impressions.
If I've had a good renter, and they move out, they probably have friends and family who may one day need a place to rent. I'd like my former tenants to be word-of-mouth advertising for me, so as long as one makes a fair attempt at leaving the place nice, I always refund the entire amount, even if it still costs me some money to re-rent. I'd hate to have a great renter end up with a bad taste in their mouth about me because they thought they got screwed when moving out.

Of course, if the place is an obvious mess, then the deposit is not refunded.

Bottom line, nobody EVER challenges me if I keep a deposit.

Now, about Wolfe's specific situation....

In Washington State, a landlord may keep the deposit only if there is a proper Move-in report, along with a corresponding Move-out report.

The landlord must prove to the court (or whomever) by documentation comparing the condition prior to moving in, and the condition after the tenant has moved out.

-So-

As long as Wolfe has given us the entire story,

-The landlord cannot keep the deposit, unless Wolfe signed a report listing any deficiencies upon move-in.

-Also, if the landlord does not refund the deposit or supply a report listing any charges against the deposit within 14 days of vacating the premisis, he is owed three times the amount of deposit, as the landlord is acting in bad faith.

Disclaimer: I am not an attorney. I'm just a guy who used to own apartments in Washington State. Laws may have changed.

My advice to Wolfe: Paying for an hour of time with a good, local Landlord/Tenant attorney may be enough to get your deposit back. A quick letter on the attorney's letterhead explaining the above L/T law of Washington may get the landlord to change his story before he ends up in court. In my experience, he won't be able to write the check fast enough to make you go away before things get ugly.

I wish you well. Keep me updated....

[WolfeMacleod]

Originally Posted by Dantilla

I wish you well. Keep me updated....

Dan, I'll upload the walkthrough video to youtube and send you the link. Unfortunately, I only did the house because I felt the yard was the same as it was when we moved in. And I actually made inprovement to the garage - insulation and industrial-grade outlets installed where they needed to be.

[RWebb]

find out the Wash. state law on this; Seattle city law will not help but check and see if Edmunds has any ordinances on it

[drcoastline]

Wolfe,

LWJ and Dantilla have both given you good starting information. I am in NJ but it sounds as though our Landlord Tenant laws are similar. I have been a tenant, am a Landlord and a Licensed Real estate Broker.

Personally before spending any money on a lawyer I would do a little leg work and locate your states Landlord tenant law. Write a letter to the landlord siting the parts of the law that apply to your case, especially the 3x damages. Give him 7days to comply or you will contact and attorney. This will also save you money with an attorney as you have already done the leg work.

Here in NJ a landlord has 30 days of receipt of your deposit to place your deposit in an interest bearing account and notify you of the institution and notify you of where your deposit is being held. You are also entitled to the interest form the account. Failure to due so results in additional damages.

Lastly, If a Landlord is going to keep all or part of your deposit they must send you a letter registered or hand delivered outlining each cost you are being charged. As LWJ stated they have 30 days to do so. Here in NJ if these cases are heard in Landlord/tenant not Small claims.

Good luck.

[s_morrison57]

you should vidio when moving in and out so there can be no "he said - she said" issues, where I live the deposit has to have incurred intrest paid back as well, to me that should be returned regardless, unless there is damage beyond the cost of your deposit

[Porsche-O-Phile]

To be fair, Milt's assessment is 100% spot-on given that he's in southern CA. Having lived there myself, renters and rental properties are dime-a-dozen. There's absolutely nothing to be gained by being good/fair to tenants, even if they trash your reputation for being a scumbag it doesn't matter - most times there will be 10 people in line for the place next week anyway. Speaking from personal experience there is seemingly very little tangible business benefit to preserving one's reputation - it's a matter of personal ethics and integrity and decency more than anything else. Even the jackass LL's get people lining up most times. Nobody cares. At the end of the day getting the best price is what typically matters.

[WolfeMacleod]

Originally Posted by s_morrison57

you should vidio when moving in and out so there can be no "he said - she said" issues, where I live the deposit has to have incurred intrest paid back as well, to me that should be returned regardless, unless there is damage beyond the cost of your deposit

You mean this? Here's the walkthrough vid on moving out, taken about two days prior to everything being out.
I drove by today and walked the outside perimiter of the backyard, filmed it too. It hasn't been touched. The front yard has been mowed again, and one bush cut back in front of the chimney. I'll post it when the upload is done. The backyard vid will give you an idea of just how overgrown it is.
Turns out, my assembly guy has a few pics of the backyard from when we moved in...

[john70t]

Those videos say a lot. (They took ten minutes to load with our Sprint "high speed intenet" tho)

If you have to go to court with an attorney, you might also be able to claim attorney fees, and cost of repairs/loss of business as long as there is a verifiable paper trail showing failure to repair with due dilligence on the landlord's part.

The "upgrades" or "changes" may have not been with the LL's consent and/or "properly handled", even if they were code and increased property value.

The good thing is he can't simultaneously claim that you didn't do yardwork while de-naturalizing the yard and lowering the value.
Catch-22 there.
Don't volunteer information and stick to the minimums of his objections.

[WolfeMacleod]

Originally Posted by john70t

Those videos say a lot. (They took ten minutes to load with our Sprint "high speed intenet" tho)

If you have to go to court with an attorney, you might also be able to claim attorney fees, and cost of repairs/loss of business as long as there is a verifiable paper trail showing failure to repair with due dilligence on the landlord's part.

The "upgrades" or "changes" may have not been with the LL's consent and/or "properly handled", even if they were code and increased property value.

The good thing is he can't simultaneously claim that you didn't do yardwork while de-naturalizing the yard and lowering the value.
Catch-22 there.
Don't volunteer information and stick to the minimums of his objections.

these videos say a lot too.
Yes, the upgrades were with permission.

This is how the yackyard and front yard appeared when we moved in. Terribly overgrown. The yard was mowed just before we moved out. Thae grass grows FAST. My friend was doing yardwork pretty much on a daily basis when he coulnd't pay rent, in an attempt to get it under control. He was a landscaper at one time, if that gives you an idea... Never happened.

[john70t]

Judge may not want to watch 10 minutes of videos.

Take some crucial pics if it comes to that. The shine from the countertops, the nick-less crappy cupboards, and the clean paint lines along the baseboard are a good start.
Dress well. Speak politely.

Good luck. That scumbag sounds like some of my former LLs.
For the thousands of dollars and headache involved, the time spent is worth a little "documentation organization".

I could find many inexpensive places to rent here in Michigan if you decide to relocate. Shiping will be extra of course.

[RWebb]

did not watch your videos, but in a demand letter to the LL, state that you have before and after videos, and your atty will put him on the witness stand while asking him to point out what in the 2 videos he is attempting to deduct for

you really must find out the law on this - if you are entitled to treble damages, say so.

see if you can get a Notice of Intent to Sue letter sent by an atty for cheap - you draft it or parts of it & he mods., signs and sends or hands sealed envelope to you and you send 2 copies - one certified & one 1st class mail

helps if you have a relative who is an atty.

otherwise just send them yourself & state that you intend to hire an atty, feel conf. he WILL PAY for YOUR atty, but you want to give him a chance to come to Jeezus first.

[drcoastline]

I dont see that a Judge would rule against you for that yard. What does your lease state in regards to maintaining the lawn? If all that is original plantings I dont see where a judge would hold you responible for the over growth along the property line. Grass is reasonably trimmed the trees in the yard are not un-ruly.
What does the Land Lord state your are to have done?