Could California suck even more?

[ted]

Az plenty of open roads too.
Rte 66, haunted mining towns, landscape.
Politics/taxes?
if Ca and Az p/t switched would anyone move?
retro safety color too.

[Rick Lee]

Looks like Sedona and Jerome. Those are touristy spots. I don't mind if the CA folks visit those. Just don't find the well-kept secrets or move here and then try to change our laws to be more like those you fled.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Just don't find the well-kept secrets or move here and then try to change our laws to be more like those you fled.

I have enough problems with European Socialists moving here to Houston!

They love the USA, the opportunity, the lower costs, etc, but if only we had free healthcare and education, just like un Europe.

[motion]

Originally Posted by speeder

Got it. Seriously, I like your laws and the whole "wild west" thing but it's a little kooky out your way.

Denis, give it up, man. The people that thrash on LA are the people that can't afford to live here and can't compete. As you so aptly said, they don't have game. You're never going to convince them otherwise. And I don't mean inland, 20 miles from the coast, where stuff is about as affordable as any other near-coastal real estate in the country.

I wouldn't trade South OC for anywhere in the world. The amenities are unequalled anywhere. Yes, its expensive, but it helps keep out the riff raff

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

That's pretty rich coming from someone in LA - CA is such shining example of rational, common sense laws and sane people.

You love it here.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by motion

The people that thrash on LA are the people that can't afford to live here and can't compete. As you so aptly said, they don't have game. You're never going to convince them otherwise.

I know you're smarter than to really believe such BS. You want to see a competitive, highly educated and driven labor pool? Try the DC area where I did 13 yrs. before quitting that rat race and moving to greener pastures. I knew I had reached my peak there when I got a free parking spot in our bldg. garage downtown. That passes in DC for having made it. And I mean that. DC makes LA look like a city of loafers.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by speeder

You love it here.

I love to visit, see some friends and then I love to head back east on the 10, back to lovely AZ.

[Rick Lee]

A big AZ welcome to CA folks.

[slodave]

Wow. Just wow. That's a real dick thing to do, Rick. A big F.Y. too.

[motion]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I know you're smarter than to really believe such BS. You want to see a competitive, highly educated and driven labor pool? Try the DC area where I did 13 yrs. before quitting that rat race and moving to greener pastures. I knew I had reached my peak there when I got a free parking spot in our bldg. garage downtown. That passes in DC for having made it. And I mean that. DC makes LA look like a city of loafers.

No denying that... there's a reason why so much wealth is concentrated in that area.

[motion]

Originally Posted by slodave

Wow. Just wow. That's a real dick thing to do, Rick. A big F.Y. too.

Its just the ADVRider salute, Dave. Nothing personal.... and don't get yourself all riled up. That bad mofo is packing!!!!

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

A big AZ welcome to CA folks.

What's that in the BG, Rick?

Oh yeah, that's AZ.

[G50-Love]

are those illegals coming across the southern border?

[LSA]

The weather's nice, and Mammoth mountain is easily some of the best skiing on the west coast. LA sucks though, there's no getting around it. I go to LA quite a bit for shows usually and it's the kind of place you go and leave as quick as possible...

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I really don't understand some of you guys - are we supposed to be impressed by your claims that SoCal is a Club Med sort of destination for only wealthy people? Haha! Speaking as someone who has lived there (and could go back there tomorrow if I could take my present income with me - too bad there's no work there...) this is hardly an accurate picture. Geographically most of the region is pretty poor - working class or below. Oh sure you get the occasional Costa Mesa or La Jolla or Newport Beach, but there are a lot more modest areas like everywhere else in the country - the Anaheims and Garden Groves of the world. Ever been to North Long Beach? Very pleasant little area about 5-10 miles from the water. Ditto Hawaiian Gardens. How about City of Industry? There's a fun place to visit. Want OC? You find richness and cultural elitism in Irvine? Cmon guys - you're painting with an awfully broad brush to claim it's all super-duper awesome and everywhere else sucks. Maybe you're just channeling the ghost of snowman but instead of being a shameless shill for SJC you guys are doing it for the entire region. Let's call it what it is shall we? A place like any other with nice areas and not-so-nice areas.

I don't get all the vitriol and hate either. For guys trying to make the case for what a wonderful utopian paradise if is you certainly come off like a couple of spoiled, bratty children (I hate you because you don't agree with me, waaaaah!)

I'm glad you guys have found a place that you like. So have I. So have a lot of people on this board. I don't really see why anyone needs anyone else's approval to live wherever makes sense to them. I certainly don't see why anyone should be impressed by someone's zip code. Again from personal experience, most of the ostentatious, "look-at-me-and-how-much-money-I-have" types really don't have all that much - 7 times out of 10 it's all hype and little or no substance, they're just trying to keep up the image 'cause it's all they've got...

Thus far I haven't seen a convincing case made for people to either move to CA or return to it. Maybe try reining in the government oppression, taxation, kicking out the illegals and getting the educational system into the top 20, or at least out of the bottom 5. Maybe then... Try fixing the roads, getting better traffic management protocols in place, etc. Most importantly do something about that 11% unemployment rate - or is it 12%? I forget offhand. Create opportunity again, create the "fun" environment that once-upon-a-time made CA an exciting place to be and where people went to succeed. It happened once but sadly it doesn't seem that that California will return for at least a couple of decades. There's a lot to be fixed and until it is, the brain drain will continue leaving only illegals, apologists, dreamers and self-absorbed narcissists who want to pretend they're something special because they live in a once-prosperous locale.

YMMV.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

A big AZ welcome to CA folks.

Geesh. I've visited a lot of countries, but I've never seen that kind of hostility to outsiders. I don't see any reason for anyone to visit AZ if they're going to be greeted by azzhats in helmets and guns. I've been treated better than that in Guatemala.

[Rick V]

Originally Posted by motion

The people that thrash on LA are the people that can't afford to live here and can't compete. As you so aptly said, they don't have game. You're never going to convince them otherwise.

That was about one arrogant statement. Maybe some of us "thrash" on that area because we simply don't like it. You don't know what "us haters" can and can't afford, or where we want to live, or how. And not "having game", is that another way of saying we don't want to be like all the rest and follow blindly into the masses?

[G50-Love]

Not just azzhats in helmets and guns, but fat azzhats.

[Hugh R]

Originally Posted by ted

Looks like Bisbee, AZ, we show a made for TV movie there "Desperation" a Steven King story.

[nostatic]

I'll lay odds that few here can trace their CA roots back further than mine (I'm 3rd generation San Diegan, my son is 4th generation SoCal). My rose colored glasses broke many years ago but I chuckle a bit when I read about how it "used to be". Most of you have no clue what it used to be like to live here, nor do you know what it is like to currently live here. Not only that, "here" in CA can be anything from dense urban blight to the most pristine backcountry in the world.

I've seen SoCal change over the last 40 years. Some for better, some for worse. Could I live more cheaply in another part of the country? Of course. Do I want to? Umm...I'm looking at a rental house tomorrow that is $4K/mo. And if it is nice, I'll pay it.

Is SoCal, or other parts of CA for everyone? Clearly not - for a variety of reasons. But the "lack of freedom" nonsense is, at least to me, nonsense. None of the horrific violations of my personal rights impacts me on a daily basis. I have 10 firearms in my apartment and thousands of rounds of ammo. Legally. I get up, go to work, go home, play music, study tai chi, ride my motorcycle, eat great food, all without serious incident. If your lifestyle has some particular aspect that isn't served by CA then this isn't the place to be...but for typical people it isn't an issue.

I'll stay here until I don't. I earn enough money to live well and enjoy myself and provide for my family. And my family is able to do things they enjoy. I can surf in Jan, ride my motorcycle year round, gig regularly in multiple music venues, and pick from world-class international cuisine on any budget. In return I have to deal with traffic (which exists elsewhere - I've driven in Boston) and high housing prices. The rest of the "horrific problems" don't impact me on a daily basis. And haven't for decades. Maybe my luck will run out. Or maybe people like to find things to complain about for the sake of complaining, and want to justify their living elsewhere in the country. No big whoop. People should live where they want. I've traveled to a number of states and some of them are great to visit. But when I get back to CA it feels like home. So that's where I stay. ymmv.