Was I an ass??

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by ZAMIRZ

Nope. Break your word as much as you want with dealer scum. They do it all the time, why shouldn't you?

Because at some point you have to hold yourself to a higher standard than scum.

[motion]

Not only are you not an ass, but had you done the deal with dealer A, you would definitely qualify as a suckaaaaa.

[Nathans_Dad]

Nostatic I think the time frame does make a difference. If you agree to buy a car and change your mind before the papers arrive is that questionable integrity??

If the dealer had anything into the deal as far as actually ordering a car then it's a different story. If they had been up front with me from the start then yes that makes a difference.

Ymmv.

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

...dealer saw the check and realized he would not be financing thru them the car went up in price by nearly $1k....

Ah yes, the craft of selling automobiles...scratch that. The craftiness of automobile salesmanship.

I once got a firm price on a new car, say $30k. The salesman offered me $10k for the car I was trading in, a great price because its resale market value was only $8k. So I'd be paying $20k out of pocket.

But I decide not to trade my old car in and the bargaining started over. I got the salesman to agree to sell me the $30k car for the absolute lowest he would go, which was $25k.

So I told the salesman that I was a bit irked about the $10k he was willing to pay for my trade in. He looked at me with an expression on his face that was a combination of surprised puzzlement and uh, oooh, and hesitated before he asked, in a wary tone of voice, Why?

Because I can do basic math in my head and you were not about to pay me $10k for my trade-in now were you? The look on the salesman's face became that of a fighter beginning to realize that he was up against the ropes, but he managed to say, No, I would have given you $10k!

Really? Well then, on second thought, I'll trade it in. So the deal will be, I buy your new car for my trade-in and $15k. Deal!

Umm, er, well no I can't do that. Why not? I asked. Well, you have to realize that when we take a car in on trade we have to sell it and can't take a loss on it. You understand. I said, But you dealers commonly sell off the trades you take in at wholesale bluebook to parties who auction them off, don't you?

Erm, uh, yes because we're really not in the used car business. We just take in trades as a service to our customers. He knew he was on the ropes now and the enthusiastic salesman's look on his face turned into an 'I'm not going to make this sale' look of resignation.

Well why not be honest with your customers and tell them you'll pay wholesale bluebook for their trade-ins, which is exactly what you would pay me, $5k, the wholesale bluebook value of my car?

I saw no point in watching him squirm, so I said, I'll think about it and left.

That's SOP in new car sales and I knew it going in. I did end up buying the new car but from another dealer, at the same price, $25k, without being lied to and told they'd give me $10k on a trade-in. I then sold my old car for $7k, $2k more than I'd have gotten if I'd have traded it in.

The above are round figures, but they make my point.

[targa911S]

it's dog eat dog. They are the ones that invite negotiation. Gloves are off at that point.

[bell]

if they were any good and actually wanted the sale then they would've closed the deal and had your signature.........

[craigster59]

" A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on." - Samuel Goldwyn

[LeeH]

I've tried two approaches when shopping dealer vs dealer. Either I tell them I'm going to shop them against each other down to the last penny and keep all the cards on the table OR I tell them they get one shot and I'm buying the cheapest deal. Both have yielded good results.

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by targa911S

...They are the ones that invite negotiation...

What's interesting to me is that an analogy can be drawn comparing U.S. car dealerships to Tijuana tourist tiendas. In Tijuana you have Juan and Pablo on the sidewalk, roping in customers. In the U.S. you have John and Paul on the car lot, roping in customers.

What other mass produced product in this country is sold out of stores at prices that can only be finally determined by haggling?

And how did it come to pass that cars are sold this way? Bicycles aren't. I don't think airplanes are.

[mattdavis11]

Nathans Dad encouraged competition, it's a good thing, being bull****ted is not. My moral compass reads dealership A couldn't provide, lied, and wasted his time. You can't do that.

Was Freeman Mazda in the mix? Just curious, I grew up in the area.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by krichard

The dealer can't throw the "integrity" thing at you since they openly admitted they made the original 27700 offer to "get you in there" and then couldn't honor it. Unless you signed on the bottom line, there was no deal.....

BINGO!

It's a CAR DEALER - you don't lose sleep OR second guess yourself here, mon!

Besides, you gave them a chance to STILL do the deal. You did everything you were supposed to as a buyer.

Trust me - you did nothing wrong.

[Hugo930]

Yes, your actions were less than honorable but I can't blame you for your actions. Easy for me to tell you what I would have done since I wasn't there but I would move on and chuck it up to experience.

[Icemaster]

Consider who/what you're dealign with. Seriously doubt a dealership would be having any kind of crisis of conscience and giving money back were they to overcharge someone.

[Hugo930]

This is true but his actions are separate from those of the dealer's. Ethics is an important part of co-existing within a society. The OP simply asked a question, that action in itself points towards a higher moral ground.

Originally Posted by Icemaster

Consider who/what you're dealign with. Seriously doubt a dealership would be having any kind of crisis of conscience and giving money back were they to overcharge someone.

[Icemaster]

Originally Posted by Hugo930

This is true but his actions are separate from those of the dealer's. Ethics is an important part of co-existing within a society. The OP simply asked a question, that action in itself points towards a higher moral ground.

I'd be looking at this more from a situational awareness/situational ethics perspective.

[Nathans_Dad]

Well I guess the ethics/integrity gods were smiling on me. I took delivery of the car, it is brand new, no scratches/dents/dings and has 84 miles on it. The finance department was overloaded so it took 1 1/2 hours for them to get to me...all that waiting for me to tell them I didn't want anything they were selling.

The good news is the floor manager was so apologetic about the wait at finance that he offered to tint the windows for free.

So, I got $400 off the price and free window tinting out of the deal.

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

...they pulled a bait and switch to start the deal so I'm not sure how much I am worried about their perception of my integrity.

Well, there ya go. Couldn't agree more.

You admit that, having to do it over, you'd do it differently. Who hasn't been in similar situations?

Besides, bait and switch, suffer the consequences when it backfires on you.

If you were an ass, you wouldn't have even thought of posting this thread.

[M.D. Holloway]

Originally Posted by RPKESQ

What would jesus do?

I think he would take a bus...

[andyt11]

Whilst you should always honor a deal that was shook on, personally I would have walked from dealer A as soon as the $27700 disappeared.

[artplumber]

Originally Posted by Icemaster

I'd be looking at this more from a situational awareness/situational ethics perspective.

This is not lying to the Nazis to save a Jewish family in the basement. It is about personal honour.

I have been massaged by these dealers within the last year too. We negotiated a price with trade and going to get the cashiers check from the bank the number (including tax etc) sounds different than it should. I do the calc - they snuck in an extra couple hundred because "it came from Oregon and they have a different dealer advertising share of cost" or some baloney. I said, "I guess I'll need my trade-in back." They caved.

I still control my own actions. But don't cut me off....