Cool video: Apaches vs Taliban... long

[Drdogface]

www.liveleak.com/ll_embed?f=f213b73d647e

Love the term 'Sparklers' for the targets

[Rick Lee]

That's the very definition of "you can run, but you can't hide."

Why in the world are our soldiers not allowed to use hollowpoint bullets in their small arms, but using 30mm against personnel is no problem?

[Drdogface]

Rick,
I'm sure you know by now that all kinds of govt agencies are buying millions of rounds of ammo....mostly hollow point... Gee, I wonder what they have in mind

[Rick Lee]

Yes, of course. But civilian gov't. and LE agencies aren't bound by the Geneva Conventions. The military is and that's why they can only use FMJ ball ammo in small arms. Not that it makes a difference with large arms. Getting hit with any part of a 20 or 30mm cannon is a show stopper, not so much with a 9mm in FMJ ball.

[stomachmonkey]

They got some of the donkeys too.

I know, colateral but I still feel bad for them.

[9dreizig]

Thanks Mark!! Good stuff!!

[Drdogface]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Yes, of course. But civilian gov't. and LE agencies aren't bound by the Geneva Conventions. The military is and that's why they can only use FMJ ball ammo in small arms. Not that it makes a difference with large arms. Getting hit with any part of a 20 or 30mm cannon is a show stopper, not so much with a 9mm in FMJ ball.

I know that, but my point was why are they buying such large quantities of ammo ? DHS, SSA, even the weather guys... (Tin foil hat): are they getting ready for a round up ?

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Drdogface

I know that, but my point was why are they buying such large quantities of ammo ? DHS, SSA, even the weather guys... (Tin foil hat): are they getting ready for a round up ?

DHS I can see doing it. SSA and NOAA are a little more curious. I've visited countless fed. agencies in DC and plenty of their smaller satellite offices. A lot of them contract with private security firms to run the mags and screen visitors at their entrances. I think the Pentagon has their own private police force (they have guys on BMW K-bikes wearing MP-5's, pretty cool). But I know BATF even used a private security contractor last time I went to their HQ in DC. So I'm not sure why the feds are ordering this ammo. Seems to me the security firms should be supplying it. The amount SSA ordered sounds like a lot. But if it's really for the security guards at all of their buildings, divide it by that number of armed security and it's probably just enough for them to practice qualify with for one year.

[Drdogface]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

They got some of the donkeys too.

I know, colateral but I still feel bad for them.

I saw a bunch of them...one taking a dump ...but did not see any hit...likely they were though and I'm sad about that too....

I think the best thing those Talibans coulda' done was just lay down and play dead...maybe some did...

[Rick Lee]

SSA just explained their ammo purchase. It's for 295 security agents and investigators. That works out to 589 rds. per person, which is totally reasonable, if not light. I shoot a lot more than that per year and I'm a lightweight. Though I don't shoot .357SIG that much because I have to pay for it and it ain't cheap.

[Hydrocket]

Isn't it a violation of the Geneva Conventions to kill someone who is already on the ground wounded and dying?? If so, the crew execute several combatants after it's pretty clear they are wounded and no longer in the fight.

[Rick Lee]

Could be. I don't know why Geneva applies here at all though, since none of those Taliban are in uniforms, fighting on behalf of a national gov't., not to mention the fact that they target and terrorize civilians. And they never signed the Geneva Conventions anyway. Kill 'em all, let Allah sort 'em out.

[Hydrocket]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Could be. I don't know why Geneva applies here at all though, since none of those Taliban are in uniforms, fighting on behalf of a national gov't., not to mention the fact that they target and terrorize civilians. And they never signed the Geneva Conventions anyway. Kill 'em all, let Allah sort 'em out.

Afghanistan signed the Geneva Convention in 1949. They are members of that nation. And GWB signed and declared that Taliban are protected under Geneva Convention....but NOT Al Queda.

[Rick Lee]

Whatever Afghanistan signed doesn't apply to rebel terrorists operating outside of the gov't. IIRC, Bush said we'd observe Geneva with regard to the Taliban, but (in effect) only because we want to, not because we have to.

[9dreizig]

Originally Posted by Hydrocket

Isn't it a violation of the Geneva Conventions to kill someone who is already on the ground wounded and dying?? If so, the crew execute several combatants after it's pretty clear they are wounded and no longer in the fight.

Really ?? I'm more upset that there were some innocent donkeys.. I see no problem finishing the job... what would you do? pick them up and give them a warm cot ?

[Hydrocket]

Originally Posted by 9dreizig

Really ?? I'm more upset that there were some innocent donkeys.. I see no problem finishing the job... what would you do? pick them up and give them a warm cot ?

I certainly wouldn't "finish them off" (which as I said earlier is a violation).

And the US often gives aid to enemies wounded in the course of battle. This is nothing new.

[HardDrive]

It looked like a slaughter to me. Nothing to be proud of. Nothing to be ashamed of. Just the machine that is war.

[Bill Douglas]

Wow, that was awesome. Those guys were sitting ducks with the heat sensor equipment and the stabilizer for the shooters.

[flatbutt]

Actually that was terrifying. How far off from the target are they hovering? And one missle for one kill? Thats a lot of $$$ for one kill. But I'm thinking if it keeps just one of ours alive it's worth it.

[Dottore]

I have no time for the Taliban, and think we are better off without them.

Still, it struck me how little like war this really is. Much more like a video game. 21st century technology against medieval tribesmen. Almost doesn't seem fair somehow.