Mercedes W123 Wagons

[HardDrive]

These crop up on CL. I would love to find a diesel thats not a money pit. Sentimental reasons.

What is the realistic outer boundary for a well cared for diesel? What are we talking in rebuild costs for a worn motor? Parts availability?

[dewolf]

Look for rust, and then keep looking for rust. Love 'em, but they are like the Fiat of Mercs.

[nota]

RUST can be an ally

why rebuild when you can buy a cheap 300sd or 300d
and swap the motor in to a wagon
but you rarely need a rebuild or swap

wagon's are avg about 3 to 5 time the price of the sedans
making them idea parts cars

[kaisen]

Speeder (Denis) is Pelican's authority on W123 wagons. He knows them inside out and upside down. He can tell you what to look for.

Their values are insanely non-linear. You can buy running examples for $1,000 or concours examples for $50,000. The curve from $5,000 to $50,000 is infathomable.

[rsNINESOOPER]

I think it goes without saying to look further south than your location if you want to avoid rust

For a car you can tinker with but can still be driven everyday you should expect to pay $5000 and up. At least that's what I found when I was searching for mine In Ca. I found one for $4500 that was a little neglected but well maintained and needed a complete dash out climate control rebuild which I did myself.

83-84 are the best of the best and most 85s are excellent as well but you have to remove some of the egr control and altitude adjusting doohickes to get the engine running at full power.

The big ticket problems with the wagons are;

1. The self leveling suspension the self leveling shocks in the rear are about $300 a piece so if you see an oil soaked rear shock expect to spend some real money. Inspect the pump itself located on the drivers side front of the engine for leaks etc. These pumps are unique to the wagons and

2. Bad cases of Hippie ownership where save the earth mentality drives them to insanity and they install WVO (waste veggie oil) systems and ruin the engines. I know a mechanic who is 35 years into a Mercedes diesel guru training program who puts new engines in the 300 series Mercs all the time for the same reason over and over. Blown rings and valve guides due to waste oil systems all because of the koolaide drinking hippie zombies who think they are doing a good thing. Start looking on craigslist at any of the 70s - 80s mercs and you will start seeing ads that say thins like "WAS running great on waste veggie oil, needs engine"

3. Vacuum actuated door locks and climate control systems are expensive to fix and are the most common thing to find not working on these cars. The vacuum "pods" are really expensive $40 - $130 each and there are something like 9 or so inside the car to operate door locks and air flaps etc.


Despite all the quirks these cars are built to be rebuilt over and over again and there is a reason there are so many left. If well maintained they will go to the 300,000 mark and still be running strong. Always change the oil and fuel filters every 3000 and be sure to convert to BIO diesel hoses and run a tank of Bio diesel through every 4th fill up or so cause it will help keep the injectors and pre combustion chambers clean. If a rebuild is needed parts are available but getting more expensive to buy genuine Mercedes which is starting to be "MADE IN CHINA"

My wife drives ours everyday and has grown to love it-

Buy the nicest low mile example you can and enjoy the ride

[rsNINESOOPER]

I would be happy to go and check out a car here in the San Francisco Bay area for you while I still live here for another month and a half

[HardDrive]

Are there any hidden/less obvious areas I should be searching for rust?

[rsNINESOOPER]

Look at the condition of the windshield seal cause they tend to leak in the lower corners which allows water to get in that goes to the rear floor area causing rust. The area where the front fenders meet the lower front valance is an area prone to rust and so are the rear quarters. There are drains behind the hood hinges that when plugged will cause the hinge area to rot out- this area is a B!t@H to repair. Like all cars check the rocker area!!.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

Are there any hidden/less obvious areas I should be searching for rust?

Cars in general rust in different places depending on what the source of the rust is, i.e. salted roads vs. ocean salt air vs. Seattle rain getting trapped in places where drains are plugged, etc. One car could potentially have more than one of these sources of rust in its lifetime.

I have an old BMW that is rusted in weird places from San Francisco bay area salt air. It has rust on the inside of the doors and under the hood but absolutely ZERO Minnesota-type rust from salted roads. The underside is factory new.

If a w123 has been exposed to what I call "Minnesota-type rust" from salted roads, it's a worthless car. $1500-$2k if it runs great and is not in need of mechanical attention. This would be rust in the pan and along the rockers and lower fenders/inner fenders where wheels spray back road slush. Salt melts the ice on freeways and highways at much lower than freezing temps, so the salty slush gobs on the underside of the car and gets in crevices, then stays there until it's power-washed off. Some is never able to be removed and it is cancer.

And the $2k would be if it still looks decent but has a lot of small, hidden rust. If it has holes, it's an $8.00 car just like any other soggy POS.

I would say the same about most other rust, i.e. ocean spray, unless it's very isolated. I have an '81 w123 TD that is a SoCal car since new but it has a little rot in the spare tire compartment from a clogged drain. The spare is directly behind the left rear wheel in these cars, facing the same way as the drive wheel. I'll go outside in a minute and take a picture for you. I would imagine that in Seattle, this is a common rust spot. Floors rust out in these cars, (and other cars), in places like Texas where they get torrential rains and water leaks in a bad window seal. Texas and places with similar climate has burning sun part of the year that will destroy a window seal, then big rains to leak as well. I've seen old cars from Texas that have rotted floors but are otherwise dry as a bone. The rest of the car is clean and dry. Really weird.

I don't actually know any hidden, strange rust locations on w123 wagons. Just the usual; floors, rockers, door jams and A/B/C pillars, etc.

Here are some pics of my nice, dry wagon, just to show what you would ultimately like to see. This was a garaged car in AZ. and Colorado, it's as dry as the desert:

Spare tire compartment:



Rest of underside:




Spare tire compartment exterior:

[rsNINESOOPER]

Originally Posted by nota

RUST can be an ally

why rebuild when you can buy a cheap 300sd or 300d
and swap the motor in to a wagon
but you rarely need a rebuild or swap

wagon's are avg about 3 to 5 time the price of the sedans
making them idea parts cars

FYI- the sedan and wagon share exterior belt line trim, bumpers, front end parts, interior door panels, front seats, dash parts, engines but NOT transmissions, etc.

electric sunroofs are to be avoided at all costs- manual sliding roofs are great.

[speeder]

Here are pics of the rusted-out spare tire well in the other wagon:



The rest of the car is as dry as a bone. Somehow water was collecting in that well for a long time and drain was plugged. I'll get it professionally fixed since the rest of it looks like this:

[72doug2,2S]

This one is in Oxford MD, not too far from BWI airport. It is on the Maryland's lovely eastern shore. I really want this car, but not the right time for me.

Mercedes-Benz : 300-Series 300TD wagon in Mercedes-Benz | eBay Motors

[vash]

i can pick you up at the airport!!

1983 Mercedes 300 tdt Turbo Diesel

[911boost]

denver craigslist > for sale / wanted > cars & trucks - by owner
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Mercedes Wagon - $6000 (Denver)

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Date: 2012-08-22, 3:10PM MDT
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1985 300 D Turbo Wagon. 156K Miles White w/ blue interior some cracks in dash but other wise in superior condition. new tires,brakes, belts, hoses. gone through by German motors 6 months ago. Came out of Murray Motors ( retail $ 28,700 )

•Location: Denver
•it's NOT ok to contact this poster with services or other commercial interests
PostingID: 3222887983

[jyl]

can you diy all the pneumatic accessories?

[kaisen]

yes, they're pretty easy to DIY

[speeder]

There are no pneumatic accessories.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by speeder

There are no pneumatic accessories.

All of the central locking, cruise, and climate control are pnuematic (vacuum) based

[speeder]

I've never heard anyone refer to the vacuum systems on a Mercedes, (or any other vehicle), as "pneumatic." That term is usually reserved for systems that are actually pneumatic, like the air suspensions on several MB models throughout the years. Systems that run on compressed air.

To avoid confusion, we just call the vacuum systems and components "vacuum". And the vacuum systems and components on older Mercedes are serviceable if you know what you're doing and have the right tools and equipment. Depending on the sub-system, it can either be fairly easy or absolutely maddening. The climate control on my 1980 w123, (early style system), is almost completely vacuum controlled and leaks can be extremely difficult to hunt down. Door lock systems are easily diagnosed, in comparison.

[speeder]

w123 wagons have both vacuum and hydraulic systems. The rear SLS is hydraulic. Other Mercedes models, from the 1950s up to the present, have pneumatic SLS systems. They truly mix it up, in the same year you can find pneumatic SLS on one model and hydraulic on another, i.e. SL vs. S-class. An S600 has hydraulic and an S500 had pneumatic, IIRC, in the w220 line. (Early 2000s).

SLS= Self Leveling Suspension.