The Affordable 996 Thread

[motion]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

You're welcome. It's faster, handles better, stops shorter, and is lighter. Oh yeah, and the A/C works. But at least the 993 is twice as much.

You know, we could just have one of these threads and sticky it. Someone brings up the virtues of the 996 and all of the air cooled guys (many of whom have never even driven a 996) step in to tell everyone how much better their cars are. I love all 911s, and think the 993 is one of the most beautiful examples of it. But it is inferior in every measurable way to the 996. We can argue character all day long, but at least come with the perspective of having driven a 996 so we can talk in some variety of informed opinion. I always wonder if this isn't a case of justifying the purchase price of the more expensive air cooled cars. Considering that a nice 993 C2 sells for 996 GT3 money, I'd probably have to do some convincing myself.......

You could say the same thing regarding a 69 911S vs a 993. One car is worth much, much more, but is inferior in every way. Besides, I think you're arguing with yourself: I never once mentioned anything about my 993. I'd love to have GT2 to thrash. Don't be so sensitive.

[Nostril Cheese]

996's sure do drive nice.

The C4S is one of the funnest cars ever.

[maxnine11]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

You're welcome. It's faster, handles better, stops shorter, and is lighter. Oh yeah, and the A/C works. But at least the 993 is twice as much.

You know, we could just have one of these threads and sticky it. Someone brings up the virtues of the 996 and all of the air cooled guys (many of whom have never even driven a 996) step in to tell everyone how much better their cars are. I love all 911s, and think the 993 is one of the most beautiful examples of it. But it is inferior in every measurable way to the 996. We can argue character all day long, but at least come with the perspective of having driven a 996 so we can talk in some variety of informed opinion. I always wonder if this isn't a case of justifying the purchase price of the more expensive air cooled cars. Considering that a nice 993 C2 sells for 996 GT3 money, I'd probably have to do some convincing myself.......

I didn't say how much better my 993 was than a 996.
The post i replied to you stated that a 996 is better, and your above post states that a 993 is inferior.

The 996 has a lot of positive attributes. (that now includes a very low entry price)
But, to me (and some others), the attributes of a 993 or 964 or older 911 are what resonate with the car guy in us more than the attributes of a 996.

I'm glad that you're enjoying your fifth, or whatever, 996.
I'll probably continue putting around in my C2S until the authorities pry my license from my wrinkled old hands,

Different strokes for different folks.

cheers,
max

[Jrboulder]

Some of you guys would love general aviation. The more soul a plane has the less it's worth!

[flskala]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

You're welcome. It's faster, handles better, stops shorter, and is lighter. Oh yeah, and the A/C works.

I've owned a few 993's and driven in quite a few. EVERY one of them had very, very good AC. I could say a few were Japanese car type ICE COLD.

There's simply no better barometer for the 996 than it's current price tag. You get what you pay for - period!

One generation of 911 is not better than another - they're just different. I've had a 70E, 79SC, 97 C4S, and currently a 99 996 and a 73S getting restored. the 996 is the most refined and easiest to live with as a daily with the 993 a close second. I loved driving every one and can point to the pros and cons of each.

[maxnine11]

^^
+997

[Laneco]

Originally Posted by motion

I still think they look like complete crap, especially the non-S, turbo, GT2, etc models. I think the attraction is that you can buy an everyday supercar for $15K and beat the living hell out of it. That's a fun fantasy to live

Exactly my opinion. I really dislike the looks, but dang...that's a lotta car for the dough.

angela

[Brando]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

A $20k 996 is better than your $40k+ 993 in every quantitative way. Maybe not quite a supercar, but far closer than it's much more expensive predecessor.

I'll admit I wasn't that good at math, but...

Originally Posted by Mark Wilson

One generation of 911 is not better than another - they're just different. I've had a 70E, 79SC, 97 C4S, and currently a 99 996 and a 73S getting restored. the 996 is the most refined and easiest to live with as a daily with the 993 a close second. I loved driving every one and can point to the pros and cons of each.

Agree 100%. We're arguing about generational gaps and advances in technology. The older cars have their advantages (higher value) and the newer cars have theirs (tech).

I've had the opportunity to drive various flavors of Porsches through generations - just waiting on an opportunity to drive a CGT and the new 911. They all have their own soul.

[speeder]

I've owned (almost) all of them and the 996 is a great car for what it is. It's true that it has sort of a cheapo looking interior, (especially the earliest ones), and in a lot of ways was a major departure from all previous 911 designs. I think that the hanging pedals were weirder to me than the liquid-cooled engine.

What a lot of people could never imagine, without owning one, is how incredibly strong they are with the exception of the well-noted flaws. I had one that was a real beater with over 200k miles on the chassis and it was tight as a bull's ass. No squeaks or rattles and that was with much firmer than stock suspension. Like all 911s before it, they respond really well to intelligent upgrades, from exhaust to suspension to aero, etc..

A stock 993 bores me to tears, to each their own. Same with a stock 996. Either one with some special sauce is a fun car on the street and at the track. I do think that 996s are worth a lot less than 993s or most other models because of styling, Japanese style manufacture and their fatal mechanical flaws. They do perform well and are rock solid in the way that only German cars are, but they don't look like they would be, IMO. You need to own one to appreciate them. I don't think that they will ever appreciate in value, at all, due to their styling and enormous sales/production numbers.

And being a rear-engined, flat-6 2+2 made by Porsche, it's definitely a 911. That said, if you want the most bang for the buck in a 911, there is only one choice. If you want more bang:buck than this, it will have to be a Corvette or some other well-used high performance car.

I think that 993s will stay pretty strong in retained value or appreciate because they are in the "driver" category of Porsches and most are getting well-used as we speak, so the number of really clean examples will gradually shrink. It already has. A clean 993 with a little help in the exhaust and suspension dept. and a weight-loss diet is a fun car.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Laneco

Exactly my opinion. I really dislike the looks, but dang...that's a lotta car for the dough.

angela

Just curious, and any other 996 styling hater can also answer: do you also dislike the looks of the 996 turbo? I personally think that the stock 996 can look like the Oscar Meyer weinermobile with its skinny tires and turd-ish shape along the bottom but that it just needs a little widening and ground effects+lowering to look awesome in a modern race car kind of way. I want to get a 996 turbo and gut it for weight, then lower it with probably H&R full coil-overs, etc.

Even my regular 996 coupe benefited greatly from said treatment, IMO:




There is no wrong answer, unless of course you disagree with me.

Seriously, let it rip.

[450knotOffice]

Originally Posted by flskala

I've owned a few 993's and driven in quite a few. EVERY one of them had very, very good AC. I could say a few were Japanese car type ICE COLD.

There's simply no better barometer for the 996 than it's current price tag. You get what you pay for - period!

That's actually not true. If a buyer knows what he's looking for and pays attention to detail, he can get WAY more than he paid for. The fact that there are only a relative few 993's out there, and that they are the last air cooled 911 (becoming collector's cars) is what drives their price up so much higher than any 996. 996's conversely, were made and sold in relatively huge quantities. There are many more 996's out there to choose from, and that has driven down the sale price.

Anyhoo. Most of us who drive the 996 simply get tired of the 993 crowd (in particular) having some sort of chip on their shoulder, constantly feeling the need to bash the cars we love. We get it, you don't like them. Get over it. It's like telling someone that their wife or husband or kid is ugly. It's just rude.

So, back to the thread topic, the affordable 996.

Used 2001 Porsche 911 For Sale | Peabody MA

Put some 2002 Carrera 5-spokes on it and this car would be beautiful. My wife has a Cobalt Blue Cayman, and the color in person is stunning.

[1990C4S]

Tip. Too bad.

Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe 2 Door | eBay

[enzo1]

Porsche 911 2dr Carrera CPE Tiptronic | eBay

[motion]

Originally Posted by 450knotOffice

That's actually not true. If a buyer knows what he's looking for and pays attention to detail, he can get WAY more than he paid for. The fact that there are only a relative few 993's out there, and that they are the last air cooled 911 (becoming collector's cars) is what drives their price up so much higher than any 996. 996's conversely, were made and sold in relatively huge quantities. There are many more 996's out there to choose from, and that has driven down the sale price.

Anyhoo. Most of us who drive the 996 simply get tired of the 993 crowd (in particular) having some sort of chip on their shoulder, constantly feeling the need to bash the cars we love. We get it, you don't like them. Get over it. It's like telling someone that their wife or husband or kid is ugly. It's just rude.

So, back to the thread topic, the affordable 996.

Used 2001 Porsche 911 For Sale | Peabody MA

Put some 2002 Carrera 5-spokes on it and this car would be beautiful. My wife has a Cobalt Blue Cayman, and the color in person is stunning.

Hey Scott, I didn't think you guys were so sensitive and would get all hurted up from us overly-intelligent 993 owners

BTW, I've been living on airplanes these days and have been keeping my eyes peeled for a SR sighting

[450knotOffice]

Richard, you ALWAYS get a pass, as far as I'm concerned. We're personal friends and I can take the ribbing - and I realize with you it's all in fun.

So many of the other dudes seem so serious though. Ready to blast the 996 at every opportunity.

Glad to hear of the renewed interest in flying. You know I'm training on the 737-800 at AA, right?

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

This one is interesting too...

Porsche 911 Carrera Coupe 2 Door | eBay

damn you

ok, why shouldn't I buy this car? Looks like it has the LMS upgrade and is street legal/track ready.

Like I need another car...

Sadly, if I sell the two basses I have on the market right now, it would just about cover the car

[M.D. Holloway]

Originally Posted by Nostril Cheese

996's sure do drive nice.

The C4S is one of the funnest cars ever.

If I could find a Tip with an aero kit I would buy it...

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by M.D. Holloway

If I could find a Tip with an aero kit I would buy it...

Why a tip??? Heavy traffic on a daily commute?

[motion]

Originally Posted by 450knotOffice

Richard, you ALWAYS get a pass, as far as I'm concerned. We're personal friends and I can take the ribbing - and I realize with you it's all in fun.

So many of the other dudes seem so serious though. Ready to blast the 996 at every opportunity.

Glad to hear of the renewed interest in flying. You know I'm training on the 737-800 at AA, right?

Congrats on the AA gig! You're commuting out of LAX?

I am on a Delta status binge currently, so DL metal only for me (not PP flying).