Is There a Ferrari That's Affordable?

[Steve Carlton]

There used to be a documentary on TV about a guy who got to drive a 308 for free. That's the way to do it.

[Nickshu]

No personal Ferrari experience but s business acquaintance of mine has a 2012 458. He had a 360 before that, also bought new. He told me Ferrari offers a maintenance/warranty package for newer cars which he buys each year, I think he said for $7500/year. This covers basically everything. He had a transmission failure on the 458 which was a $37K repair bill (IIRC the transmission was replaced and cost $30K alone). Paid for itself. Not sure how far back they offer this, but my guess is it's only cars a certain age or less.

He gave me a ride in it a few months back. Wow, that thing is a hammer. Makes any Porsche I've been in, including the 991, look like a VW Golf. It's expensive for a reason! But I would not drive it every day, however I would drive a 911 every day.

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by Embraer

I have an F355, yes. it's not bad, at all to work on. lots of this crap is hyped up. The alternator for example...is a Nippon Denso unit. It's about $1400 in a yellow box. Or about $225 for the exact same unit, with a higher output.

what's crazy...is when you take the interior apart, and start looking at the backs of the switches...you'll sometimes see a FOMOCO logo.

exhaust gaskets....$50 a piece in a yellow box. They're $3 Victor Reinz gaskets, with the same part number. I bought those at NAPA. etc etc

I've been in the *want* bin of 348's since they were $70K cars. I saw an off color one a few weeks ago local that was in the low 30's, made do some hunting on cost of ownership. Aside from a major issue the gearbox or engine, it seems it wouldn't be *that* much more expensive than the 944.

The 355 has a much stronger aero design, there is probably a little more time involved removing aero only panels for access. Probably not that big of a deal.

The transverse transmission in the 348 is going to make clutch changes quite a bit different between the two cars.

Its funny, but when it comes to styling, I love the 355 Spyder, but really do not care for the 348 Spider, and when it comes to the coupe, its swapped, I like the 348 GTB better than the 355GTB.

Nick, is that 458 an Automatic? Seems a little on the cheap side for a transmission replacement compared to what I remember. The GTA is a *Cheap* Ferrari I would stay a long ways away just because you can't really DIY to anything with the gearbox, an pretty much, your only solution is replacement. Q_Q

I did a quick look for the 348 I was talking about, not a perfect car, doesn't really have much info, but it was actually less than $30K. The color is a weak point for a sale, but a strong point for me. I love the stormy ocean like blue on cars. TDF blue would be better...but anyway.

http://www.vast.com/cars/detail/7177401965660879717

Something I've noticed with several 348's, is the tan interior color seems to be a coating on top of another color of leather entirely - and it flakes off in contact areas. All cars will have wear in contact areas, but this looks extra ugly. I do not see many 348's with black interiors, so I do not know if its just the tan. There are a lot more black 355 interiors out there that I see.

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by exc911ence

Those looking for cheap speed should be shopping for Lotus Esprit Turbos. OK, maintenance can be an expensive issue (many Lotus guys are DIY) but how can you turn away from a machine that looks like this?

Lots of late-model turbo 4's for sale in the $25K range. TONS of performance for the money.

We now return you to the originally scheduled program....

I think the Lotus could be a bigger PIA to work on than the Ferrari...

One other food for thought for the thread, I've owned 4 944's, and driven more, when cars get to be 20+ years old, they change, and depending on whats been replaced/maintained, and what the options were, or what parts have been replaced with, the character of the cars can be drastically different. My '84's handling is very aggressive, much stiffer rear suspension, and more aggressive alignment, car is quite willing to step the rear out in the cold or wet. Toe out and high caster means the wheel jumps with every bump of the road. My '86, you can let go of the wheel entirely for long stretches. They are entirely diff experiences even though both 944's. (This is in response to the diff of opinions on whether a 308 handles like a truck or not).

[intakexhaust]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Over lunch on Thursday I found out that a new coworker has two 944s, a 348, and is the former owner of a 512TR and 308. He said that the TR was fantastic but attracted attention everywhere, and he was spending around $4k per year on maintenance. He said the key to DIY on a Ferrari was to do everything yourself for the duration of ownership, then have a major done at a reputable shop immediately prior to selling. He also said that the 308 drove like a truck.

Therein is the answer AND the problem. I recall the days when nice 246 Dinos (Ok... not a Ferrari could be had for $14K. These were cars for the low budget enthusiast and who could wrench on them. Realistically many were self serviced.

Fast forward today and one can still find driver 308's in the low $20k. One can wrench on them as well plus be resourceful for parts. The problem lies when you now sell them as buyers only want to see impeccable service records from a dealer. Without those records, the value is slashed.

[Schumi]

Someone, either on here or on F-chat, gave me some good advice back when I was in the market for a 355 -

When you buy a used Ferrari, put it up for sale the very next day for more than you paid for it, enough to make up for taxes, registration, and some profit. It will take a while, maybe 3, or 6 months, for someone to come offering that amount of money, but when that happens.. sell it immediately.

Repeat with slightly more expensive Ferrari.

Hope that nothing goes bad in that time frame.

[Don Ro]

Poignant!

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by Don Ro

For the common man?

...thinking, all of a sudden.
What Ferrari, year and model, won't break the bank* and will appreciate?
Thanks for any info...good or bad.
.
*Have to define "bank", I guess.

And define "common man", no offense but I doubt many common men will/can spend a years income on a high maintenance sports car.


Back when I was working construction (thirty years ago) I saw a Ferrari in a used car lot, not sure of the model but front engine big fat beautiful V12 for something like $10-$15K. I peeked under the car and it looked like someone had sprayed the entire underside with oil... it was very... very difficult... but I walked away.

[Don Ro]

After reading the comments in this thread, it's becoming a common thought to abandon the idea of owning a Ferrari.

[Embraer]

you only live once. ha!

[Don Ro]

And many thanks to all who posted.
And thanks for the invite, Mike.

[David McLaughlin]

I'm working on several cars right now. Two Dinos and a 166. In twenty years not much changed. I know one Dino was bought for less than book but onve the paint and bondo was removed, it looked bad. The other Dino is even worse. It has most of the chassis replaced already and will get much of the body replaced too. The 166... well even with new metal in key places will have lots of filler to look like the six figure car it is. My boss has seen 308s with 1/2 to 3/4 in thick filler... factory.

Still want an early 512 Testarossa

[exc911ence]

The later Mondial T's were pretty nice looking cars:

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by javadog

I used to own a couple Ferraris. Decided one day that Ferrari was no longer interested in supplying spare parts for the older cars and saw the writing on the wall. Sold them and never looked back

My observations:

They are not cheap to own but they don't break often. Electronics are staring to be a problem on some of them. They are not DIY friendly, in the manner of a similar 911. Anybody that disagrees with this ought to adjust the valves on the forward bank of a 308 or 328 4-valve motor. Let me know how that goes for you...

A Ferrari of the 70's or 80's feels like a kit car, compared to a 911. They chassis weren't well made. Tossing aside the GTS models, which are so flexible they make a 911 targa feel like a modern F1 car, the things you touch just aren't solid. Grab ahold of the steering wheel and try to move it up and down. You'll note that the dash structure flexes. Turn the wheel while driving and enjoy the fact that the joints used in the steering column, coupled with the uneven angles of the three parts of the column, result in uneven self-centering forces as you turn the wheel. Enjoy the crap driving position and the seats that kill your back in 30 minutes or less. Enjoy bottoming the radiator on every major dip in the road at speed.

Want me to continue?

JR

I've owned a few, too, over the past 25 years, all 80s V8s.

I agree with everything you've said. Esp. re the steering and steering column! Those 80s V8s have awful steering feel. Slow, trucklike, and just plain unpleasant.

And, like most of the car, flimsy. Ann 80s 911 leather seat can still look new at 100,000 miles with some care. No way those weird painted leather Ferrari seats can do that. I had a pristine example that was perfect in every way, except for the cracking paint/dye on the driver's seat. At 6,000 miles!

They are still, IMO, beautiful to look at. A 308 (esp. a GTB) is still stunning to my eyes. The 328, too, but not quite as much. But the driving experience just doesn't back up the looks.

But they aren't terribly bad to work on, overall. Either carbs or your basic CIS injection system. Most access isn't tooo bad (although the forward valves are tough as you point out). Timing belts are a piece of cake (easier than most cramped FWD Japanese cars).

I hate the way they do a lot of things. The sealing of the cams and the valve covers, etc. doesn't make a lot of sense, and has so many weak points that can cause leaks.

But mechanically, not bad. If you can maintain a 911 IMO you can maintain a 308, and it's not too much different (the 911 is easier, though, and far more durable).

After I sold my first one, I swore never to get one again. I violated that rule over the years. But I sold my last one this year, and this time it's for real. It's out of my system and I don't think I'll ever get on again. I still think they are great looking, and when "well set up" they do have a certain driving charm. I love seeing them at shows or on the road, etc., and if someone wants to let me drive theirs, I'm all for it! But to own one again, not likely.

And they can be fairly reliable and not too expensive to maintain, IF you are a DIY (if you have to hand it into a shop every time, IMO there is no way it's worth it - I've never seen a reasonably priced Ferrari shop).

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

There used to be a documentary on TV about a guy who got to drive a 308 for free. That's the way to do it.

If you know the cars, the market, how to buy and sell cars, can DIY the repairs and have a decent touch, it's not hard to do that.

I had my last one for 4 years and made money on it. Bought for $34K, sold for $45K, did nothing except regular maintenance, chase some oil leaks, and some minor repairs.

It's in the buying and selling. The 80s V8 cars can be very, very hard to sell, a real pain. There's a LOT of buyers with "a little" knowledge about the cars (most of which was learned fourth hand on the Interweb), which is the worst kind of buyer to have. Most of these cars tend to sit on the market for a long time, too.

So it's pretty much the opposite of selling a 911, where you have a high knowledge base and lots of people willing to pull the trigger very quickly on good deals.

[Ferraripete]

Originally Posted by McLovin

If you know the cars, the market, how to buy and sell cars, can DIY the repairs and have a decent touch, it's not hard to do that.

I had my last one for 4 years and made money on it. Bought for $34K, sold for $45K, did nothing except regular maintenance, chase some oil leaks, and some minor repairs.

It's in the buying and selling. The 80s V8 cars can be very, very hard to sell, a real pain. There's a LOT of buyers with "a little" knowledge about the cars (most of which was learned fourth hand on the Interweb), which is the worst kind of buyer to have. Most of these cars tend to sit on the market for a long time, too.

So it's pretty much the opposite of selling a 911, where you have a high knowledge base and lots of people willing to pull the trigger very quickly on good deals.

the best examples always sell quickly and 308's are now getting loved again and it is being reflected in valuations.

[Schumi]

The 308 market was at it's bottom about 4-5 years ago I think.

Recently it's been up up up.

Locally I've seen 308's advertised for near-348 money. And 328's for MORE than 348's.

[black_falcon]

You could easily spend more money maintaining a 928/944 than you would on a 308/328. They're really pretty reliable cars.

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

There used to be a documentary on TV about a guy who got to drive a 308 for free. That's the way to do it.

Are you calling Magnum PI a documentary?!

[Ferraripete]

Originally Posted by black_falcon

You could easily spend more money maintaining a 928/944 than you would on a 308/328. They're really pretty reliable cars.

this.