My point was that the old man knew he could use lethal force and was the one that should have diffused the situation. Period. Obfuscating this with irrelevant points won't change this fact. The man tossed popcorn at him - he didn't pull out a Sig or a switchblade.

Especially if you are behind them and a little elevated...for better target positioning...rather than using a deadly weapon...whack!

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_nY99pC4cjK...b81dca8427.jpg

So it's acceptable to be a douche as long as the other guy does not have a gun? Sorry but that's f'd up.

The texter "escalated" because he was younger and stronger than the old guy and thought he had the power of intimidation on his side.

That's a bully in my book.

A reasonable person would have apologized (because he was wrong) and taken his phone out of the theatre.

End of situation.

My 70 year old father with the prostate cancer who was on Dialysis for failed kidneys in addition to an inoperable lateral aortic aneurism was not likely to and did not beat the ever living crap out of a guy less than half his age and more than twice his size because the young guy was inconsiderate and parked his car in the lane in a parking lot blocking my father in his spot.

Had the young guy apologized for his inconsiderate actions and moved his car so my father could be on his way that would have been the end of it.

My father was also not likely to and did not beat the ever living crap out of the young guy when he got in my fathers face and launched into a tirade of verbal abuse peppered with racial epitaphs.

Still, had the young guy apologized for his inappropriate actions and moved his car so my father could be on his way that would have been the end of it.

My father was however highly likely to and certainly did render the young guy unconscious with a broken jaw and needing 20 stitches in his face for making the mistake of taking a swing at my father and breaking my fathers favorite pair of glasses.

And that was the end of that.

Totally understandable reaction by your pops - self defense. I'm waiting for the part where he pulled out his gun and shot the punk dead when he got in his face.

There were no winners at that theater on Monday, its tragic and unacceptable! Not only was a life taken unnecessarily, the quality of live for both families has been forever changed, it will never be the same.

If one cannot abide by the rules, regulations and policies set forth by an establishment...then don't go in! Both parties were equally at fault. Both men failed to take care of themselves and their families, now it is time to pay the piper.

Monday morning quarterbacking is pretty easy and I am amazed at "some" of the post here. I can see how things like this happen with some of the attitudes...and we "ALL" feel like we are justified to support our own position...do we not?

Both men made equally bad decisions, it takes two to tango and now the families will have to live with those decisions the rest of there natural lives. Senseless killing and untold anguish.

The thought of that three year old girl (and other family members) having to carry the burden of those selfish idiotic men is quite overwhelming, unjustified to say the least.

Pummeling is allowed while the commercial ads are running. Once the previews start, Tazing is allowed to come into play. Gun play is not allowed until the feature film starts.

Clearly the cop violated "policy".

Pops was not carrying.

He tended to use whatever he had on hand anyway.

Like the time he caught someone who had broken into his garage and was stealing stuff. Pop knocked him out with an acetylene torch.

My father used to use a live potted evergreen as his Christmas tree and after the season would plant it on his property. My older brother was "feeling his oats" and got into it with my father. My father turned around, picked up the tree and started beating my brother with a fully decorated potted Christmas tree. Funniest thing I'd seen in my life. My poor brother just stood there stunned while his friend and I were laughing our asses off.

Pop was very resourceful.

Point of the parking lot story was don't ever assume you are the only badass in the room.

It could end badly for you.

If you are wrong, apologize and move on.

You are assuming many things here - first of all that the texting guy was wrong. He was texting before the feature film started, something a lot of people do, and the warnings in the theater usually have to do with not texting during the film. People are moving around, talking and texting a lot before the feature film starts, and that behavior is usually quite acceptable, and usually not 'banned' by theater management. He could have very well felt his behavior fell well within the 'norms' of movie goers.

Again you are assuming that the younger man escalated this because he was stronger and younger. He very well could have escalated because he believed he was 'in the right'. Many people do that, with no regard to size or age. The 'right' factor is a pretty convincing argument that people have a tendency to defend. Your conclusion that he was a 'bully' could be way off the mark. He could have just been standing up for what he felt was his 'right' to text his babysitter and check up on his 3-year-old daughter before the film started. He was considerate enough to do it with plenty of time before the film started so he wouldn't be bothering the other patrons during the feature film.

Your assumptions could be very wrong.

Foxpaws,

How hard was it to be the bigger man and say "I'm just checking up on my daughter. Let me just send a quick message and I'll put the phone away?"

There is nothing inherently wrong with texting before the movie, just like there is nothing wrong with asking someone not to do so.

It's when neither backed down is where the problem is.

And for the record, it's not his assumption that the young guy escalated things, it was reported in the news.

He did not escalate the conflict, the texter did. While he may not have been wise, he was in no way obligated to take a seat elsewhere...and in fact, I appreciate the fact that he stood up to the bully. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing".

It is too bad it turned out the way it did.

The key word here is "if attacked", he wasn't....so its a mute point!!! I dare say there is a court in the country that will call it an even fight...38 against a bag of popcorn.

Hey, there could have been unpopped kernals! He could have had an eye put out!!!

"Stand your ground"..... Puleeeeze.

I'm sure the cop was level headed through the entire incident and was suprised at the texters reaction...:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I bet the cop was on the verge of popping a vessel after getting no love from the lobby.

As to taking a side because the old man said he felt threatened???

He's either a liar or a pussy. Of course he's going to say he was in fear for his life. He just gunned down a guy weilding a bag of buttered popcorn.

Just think of the damage the texter could have done if he'd been eating licorice whips.

If he was considerate, the old guy wouldn't have to ask him multiple times.

How many texts does it take to check in with your babysitter?

Why would you seek to make a polite discussion into a personal attack? IS that the world were you live?

Obviously, the younger man was the bully. He was imposing his wants (against the rules) upon everyone else in the theater. He was banking upon the fact that no one would have the nerve to call a big guy like him on it. As he said himself...he never thought he would get shot. Obviously he believed that he could intimidate everyone into taking his crap.

I think the fact that the cop went from the lobby directly back to the guy to do some "home style policin" escalated it.

This argument is so much like the last Florida shooting case it's not even funny.

How true.

Or they could be right.

But yes, it does depend on when the texting was happening, during the advertising / entertainment portion when the lights are still on and you would barely notice a phone or was it during the trailers directly preceding the main feature when the lights are turned down which is the signal that the show is starting and also the time when the bright light of a cell phone is distracting.

1st thing I do when I get in my seat is to silence my phone and remind my wife to silence hers because she always forgets. I freely admit to using mine while the advertisement portion is running but the second the lights go down it goes away.

Lol, you are too funny. You have it all figured out don't you. For a minute I actually thought you believed what you were writing, but it's obvious your just trying to make statements to get people fired up. Have fun playing with yourself.... SmileWavy

If a larger man attacks me in a dark theater...I likely would not wait to see if he is hitting me with a bag of popcorn or a set of brass knuckles. I would act to defend myself and my wife as best I could. Waiting for a second blow could be too late.

It doesn't have to be an "even fight"...that is the whole idea about carrying a defensive weapon.

Holy crap.

Guys like the ex-cop (and fint, apparently) are the reason people should carry a gun in the movie theater.

Yup. Was probably muttering under is breath as he hurried back to the texter that he'd "Take care of this my damned self..." The guy was a police captain and probably wasn't used to not getting his way.

^ Now, who's making assumptions?

All reports say that upon returning, it was the text guy that confronted the old man.

So you feel that the cop was within his rights to confront a man with heated words and not expect a reaction?

You would honestly consider yourself under attack for popcorn being thrown at you?

I once killed a girl in a bar for having a drink thrown in my face. She could have had a pair of tweezers.

No more than those that assume the cop was level headed right up until he pulled the trigger.

"Why I just don't understand why that bigger, badder, younger , evil guy got all up in my 70 year old face."

Would you honestly think that throwing things at others won't get a reaction?

I agree with you 100%!! Again "If"... No one was attached, no one poked the other guy in the eye...it was nothing but words other then the torrents of flying buttered popcorn!

The shooter pulled out a concealed 38 and blew the guy away...there is no "if" in what happened!

How many texts do you think the father made? It could take 3 or 4 or more, depending on what they were texting about - nap, how long, she is being fussy, where is her favorite blanket so she will sleep. Again, this was happening before the film started.

Considerate is in the eye of the beholder. Considerate could be, 'I'll just ignore this stupid old man, finish my text, and we can all enjoy the movie when it starts.'

Again, any of this behavior, including throwing popcorn and screaming, in no case should end up with someone dying.

You just made my point...

I bet that popcorn hurt.

I am. It fits his profile and I never said he did in fact say those things. I said he "probably" did. You can continue to argue that if the texter only did this or that, or shown some consideration, etc., it would've never happened. True, and I agree. But he didn't. We can't control what free people can do. The victim was a jerk and it was clear to everyone. What the shooter could control was being in that situation. He knew he was angry, he knew he had a gun, he knew the texter was belligerent. Two choices: stand there and make him do what you say and escalate, or find another seat and walk away. He chose the former.

Upon further reflection, I think I'm coming around to fint's ol' west shoot em if they look at you cross-eyed mindset. After all, everyone knows that movie theater popcorn has a lot of salt (sodium). Well that's a killer for people with high blood pressure, like old guys. The shooter was really a victim after all. SmileWavy

It'll be interesting when we are given the timeline of the texts which I assume will come out at trial.

My guess is that he had already stopped before old guy came back in the theater to make sure his will would be obeyed. If that turns out to be the case will it have any effect on those that think old guy's actions were justified??

But it will piss off 100% of the people you throw it to. Ergo, don't be surprised if you got your **** knocked out or get blown away.

You reap what you sow. Behave like an asshat, you'll get treated like an asshat.

To babysitter: "Just tell her daddy can't talk now, yes, yes, I love her too - trailers are on and some old guy behind me is pissed about my texting. If I don't stop he'll probably shoot me...."

Not beyond the imagination...

Nope - they will find another reason to justify the old man's actions - because to those who believe that the old man was justified, this is certainly about a lot more then just texting in a theater.

I.E.
I would think it won't go to trial - I imagine there will be a deal here somewhere, considering the age of the murderer and the amount of witnesses, which at this point seem to be supporting murder two.

The dude shot a veteran in a theatre with a bunch of witnesses... sounds like jail

On the bright side, he won't be bothered by people texting at the jail movie night.

You're taking my quote out context.

We're talking about actions and consequences.

I'm not saying it won't end up being guilty for Murder 2. I'm just saying don't be surprised you get your s-t handed to you if you behave like a douche.

Some people are only alive because it's illegal to kill them. But then plenty get killed despite the law banning that.

Foxpaws,

As a side note, I will re-iterate that both men were responsible for this.

There is no "us" vs "them." This is NOT one of your political arguments in PARF. We can all agree that it was senseless and that the cop IS rightly arrested for his crime.

Where the disagreements begin is in the shades of gray and who is thought to be the aggressor.

And if you even think this "US vs THEM" issue is related to carrying guns, I am NOT a gun owner nor will I be for the foreseeable future.

Okay, why is it that it was the old guy's responsibility to insist the guy stop texting? Who was the real douche? Would you like it if someone demanded you stop doing something, even if you knew you weren't necessarily following the rules? If the old man was a jerk about it, I think he wouldn't be responded to with courtesy by most people. You're making too many assumptions.

And hes going to be in a heap of trouble when he finds out he is the only one with the bag of popcorn...