777 down

[gordner]

His point is that they must have known where they were if they were in fact conscious. But it could have flown 7 hours by accident if no one was conscious to interact with the aircraft systems.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Baz

How did it happen?

I was thinking the plane was hijacked - but somehow afterwards had an accident. Or the accident could have happened during the hijacking.

You're saying an accident.....but no hijacking?

as i said, i can see many accident situations ...

lead operator signs off and heads back for a nap after they leave Malaysian control, he was out drinking last night due to family problems, needed a rest before he was needed again nearer to landing. some kind of electrical fault happens, second in command reacts, reacts poorly. by the time the lead operator comes back up to the flight deck, uninformed of exactly what got them into this situation, also attempt to take control. the long and short of it is, they bungle the response. more electrical problems, communication and navigation are out. they think they are doing the right thing, they arnt. by the time they figure out where they are, or at least that they arnt going the right direction (pretty easy to be confused at night), they are too far gone.

or, they gain altitude in an attempt to solve what they think is an electrical fire, there is a cabin leak. they loose control, computer flies plane for next 6 hours.

or maybe, cabin depressurizes, oxygen system isn't working, or the operators attempt to hero it, they pass out, computer levels off the plane, and they fly for the next 6 hours.



there are easily a half dozen situations which are very easy to imagine, which start with electrical problems, compounded by operator error (either them not knowing what the aircraft is doing, or them not knowing the right solution, or worse, both), and causing such an accident.

humans don't respond well to emergency situations, esp if they are being fed incorrect information, or assume incorrect information. and when they don't know what the problem is, they do the wrong things to correct, make it worse, get more lost etc etc ... it happens. literally every explained aircraft disaster fits this bill.

[VaSteve]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

aircraft fly themselves.

I heard heard many times, that the pilot these days is only there to give the passengers some comfort that the computer is not doing everything. In essence, nearly everything is managed by the computer, which is why old school pilots like Sullinberger are so rare.

[Sunroof]

Into the roaring forties where everything gets swallowed up. No other place on the planet would be preferred regarding hostile open ocean area to get rid of an airplane. If I had to take a plane down and avoid any trace, the South Indian Ocean with winter coming on would be my choice. Add currents, drift and deep ocean vortex's and its gone.......................debris might show up in Antartica one day as it drifts south by east.

No wonder its becomming second page news now.

Boeing must have been alerted that its a done deal and since the plane flew to its fuel use limit, the 777 will retain its great safety record.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

We can all forgive your aviation ignorance CP.

the 777 can complete entire flights, take off, navigation, and landing, without human interaction.

i'll forgive you your aviation ignorance.

[gordner]

^^ yeah not if the plane some how malfunctioned and killed all on board 7 hours before splash down.....

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by gordner

^^ yeah not if the plane some how malfunctioned and killed all on board 7 hours before splash down.....

maybe, maybe not.

depends on what failed and what the aircraft was doing when it failed.

[cockerpunk]

or there is also operator suicide. thats a possibility too.

i don't file that one under conspiracy though. certainly sinister, but not terrorist/government conspiracy.

[Cajundaddy]

Since we have very few facts everything is open to speculation. A serious electrical problem or fire on board without a mayday or distress call is possible but unheard of. Being abducted by aliens is also a longshot but we can't rule that one out just yet either. Meanwhile we wait.

[Sunroof]

777 navigation - communication panel

[gordner]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

the 777 can complete entire flights, take off, navigation, and landing, without human interaction.

i'll forgive you your aviation ignorance.

Oi, the absolutes on this board.

The 777, if properly equipped, is capable at an equipped airport that is properly rated (of which there are a handfull in the world) can theoretically do that yes. When everything works properly. I work in aviation, and pilots are in general a huge pain in the ass, but today and for awhile to come, they will be a necessary evil. Very few autonomous aircraft fly commercial air corridors and the fact that some do is still a very contentious issue.

The computers handle things exceptionally well, when everything is working according to plan. Humans are still the better machine when it comes to emergency operations.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by gordner

Oi, the absolutes on this board.

The 777, if properly equipped, is capable at an equipped airport that is properly rated (of which there are a handfull in the world) can theoretically do that yes. When everything works properly. I work in aviation, and pilots are in general a huge pain in the ass, but today and for awhile to come, they will be a necessary evil. Very few autonomous aircraft fly commercial air corridors and the fact that some do is still a very contentious issue.

The computers handle things exceptionally well, when everything is working according to plan. Humans are still the better machine when it comes to emergency operations.

well, one thing is for certain ... holding a straight course and altitude is very very very very very very very very very very easy for an aircraft to do by itself.

one does not need to be at the controls, for the aircraft to fly for 6+ hours until it runs out of fuel.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Sunroof

777 navigation - communication panel

this spawns another idea .... what if panel illumination failed? hard to tell all those buttons apart if they arent lighted? plug in the wrong course, think you are flying the right direction, you arnt etc etc esp when you are in a hurry, responding to a crisis, low on oxygen ....

there are literally dozens of different non-conpriacy ways this thing could have played out.

[Cajundaddy]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

the 777 can complete entire flights, take off, navigation, and landing, without human interaction.

Of course it could possibly be done but it didn't. It took off with redundant nav. and communication systems and redundant crew. For all of this to be wiped out with no peep from the crew including transponders and beacons and have the plane fly on a new course unmanned for 7 hrs of controlled flight is an alien abduction quality longshot. It is still possible but requires a lot of faith in chaos theory.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Cajundaddy

Of course but it didn't. It took off with redundant nav. and communication systems and redundant crew. For all of this to be wiped out with no peep from the crew including transponders and beacons and have the plane fly on a new course unmanned for 7 hrs of controlled flight is an alien abduction quality longshot. It is still possible but requires a lot of faith in chaos theory.

not really, considering its probably what happened.

i mean we are already talking long shots, the odds of there being any problem at all, much less one that crashes the plane, much less one that crashes the plane without an electronic peep, is pretty long. we are already looking for a long shot.

but i think its a much much much longer shot, to start talking about conspiracies and dumping serialized parts etc etc i mean, thats just crazy talk pure and simple.

Occam's razor, all else being equal, the simplest solution is the most likely: electrical failure and/or operator error.

[Sunroof]

The big question is....will Countries continue to pour assets and money into this search? Will Boeing engineers and the FAA ponder the possibility of a flaw in the airplane? Has it become A MUST FIND case or will the ones in the know, slowly back off using weather, waves and approaching winter in the final decision making as it appears now?

I would wager that their are folks in high places that know what happened to this airplane. I do not think it was any conspiracy on behalf of any nation to steal an airplane. I do not believe it was the crew nor any of the passengers. I only have my imagination to take me from here and thats makes it all the better.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Cockerpunk, I'm afraid your enthusiasm is getting ahead of your aviation knowledge. Even simple systems like cockpit lighting are certified by the FAA and have multiple redundancies, including built in map lights and flashlights. The odds of a failure(s) taking out the crew and passengers before they could transmit a single communication yet allowing the airplane to fly on autopilot until fuel is extinguished is beyond improbable. Considering the documented instability of the pilot, at this point I think pilot suicide is a far more likely option.

[gordner]

Pilot suicide is very likely, but improbable or not it is a very real possibility nothing nefarious took place, there are fault scenarios that could result in an even such as this.

Personally I think the pilot dumped her in on purpose, as that is the simplest theory. But, a strange situation for sure.

[EMJ]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

Occam's razor, all else being equal, the simplest solution is the most likely: electrical failure and/or operator error.

Following Occam's Razor would point to the pilots as that is the theory which requires the fewest assumptions. Not saying it's the case, just saying mechanical failure and the actions of the pilots would require many assumptions that simply don't make sense under the circumstances.

[daepp]

The Mayasians did not want to admit that internal politics caused one of their own to snap. I think that hard turn to the left is indicative of them calling the pilot's bluff. My opinion is that's when he said "I'll show them. I'll just head south east until they call back." "Hello?" "I'm waiting" "Fuel is running low." "Hello?" "Oh well, F it. This is for Malay democracy! This is for Anwar Ibrahim! Allah ahkbar!"

U-turn as Malaysian opposition leader Anwar Ibrahim admits MH370 pilot is in-law's relative | South China Morning Post





Of course, almost all of that is speculation, but informed speculation nonetheless. Especially if you believe, and I am unaware that this fact has been refuted, that everything was turned off in order - except that which he did not know about. And that directly before boarding he was in the courtroom where his hero was sentenced for being gay.