777 down

[varmint]

By the way,

Everyone is looking for a coherent plan that explains everything. It is very frustrating because nothing makes sense. But if you look at it as a plan that went wrong it gets clearer.

[afterburn 549]

"IF" it is on the bottom where they say it is........something went way wrong.
It was just a plane on auto pilot till the fuel stoped flowing.
Like a fire on board snuffed everyone out .

[stuartj]

Originally Posted by varmint

So what? Think of Egypt. The Muslim brotherhood used words like freedom, democracy and human rights. It is naive in the extreme to project our values on others.

My baseless speculation is just as good a everyone else's baseless speculation. I think the captain planned a political statement/hijacking. Something went wrong and he lost control of the plane. And no one else was in a state to regain control.

It would also be naïve to compare Malaysia and Egypt, to assume that Islam is a homogenous idea or to think that there are no progressive, social democratic ideas in either Malaysia (Anwar Ibrahim for example) or in Egypt for that matter. Or to assume that because an airline pilot lives in an Islamic country he is capable of a terror act.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by varmint

By the way,

Everyone is looking for a coherent plan that explains everything. It is very frustrating because nothing makes sense. But if you look at it as a plan that went wrong it gets clearer.

I think you're right. This began with something sinister and for whatever reason the plane kept flying in a straight line until ran out of fuel.

[widebody911]

[cashflyer]

Missing Malaysia Airlines plane: Could a UFO have interfered with Flight MH370? - Charleston News | Examiner.com

[HHI944]

Aliens seems more logical than some of the 'official' BS....

[Nate2046]

Originally Posted by gordner

Are you a boeing engineer? I worked on an MD-80 5 years ago, an aircraft that was ancient when I worked on it, and it was fully capable of auto land and auto take off. Going from the proper category of airport to another fully rated destination the aircraft was fully capable of carrying out the entire flight wheels down to wheels down with no human input.
The systems and capablities are out there to build a fully autonomous airliner, just as fully autonomous drones currently are flying up and down your Northern and Southern borders every single day....The computers don't care if it is a 10 000 lb drone or a 500 000 lb airliner.

No, not an engineer, just a pilot type-rated on a Boeing (not the 777) but most Boeings share a similar design philosophy. I'd be interested to hear more about the auto-takeoff feature on the MD-80 and how that works. We don't have anything of the sort on the 747-8, which is a fairly modern airplane. Of course, we do have autoland for very low weather conditions (basically blind) but it still has to be 'set up' by the crew in flight. Its not the least bit remotely operable. Its interesting that you would point out drones, because, again, they're not fully autonomous. I agree computers don't care about weight, pretty sure they don't care about anything, because they're machines.

[911_Dude]

^^^ Agreed. There is no auto-take-off on any airliner I have ever flown (Boeing, Airbus, Fokker). And certainly not on an old MD-80. The most automation on take-off is hand flown up to 200-400 feet with auto-throttles. Enroute is all auto pilot. In the approach area the airplane may be on auto pilot, but you have to manualy set the vector headings as you get aligned with the runway. It is extremely rare not to get some sort of vector. Most airliners are auto land capable, and that can bring you to a full stop on the runway, then you have to hand drive to the terminal.

Thats it. Lets get back on topic instead of bickering about how much a plane can or cant fly its self.


.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by cashflyer

Missing Malaysia Airlines plane: Could a UFO have interfered with Flight MH370? - Charleston News | Examiner.com

When even the UFO people don't think it's a UFO, you know this is an event many want to stay away from.

[cashflyer]

Is it possible that MH370 was a 9/11-type plot, in which the target was the Petronas Towers in Kuala Lumpur?

[Crowbob]

It's beginning to look like mass murder/suicide by the pilot.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

It's beginning to look like mass murder/suicide by the pilot.

I've been following this thread...WAY better than the so called "news" coverage. That's been my gut feel all along...seems as if his personal life was falling apart from what I've gathered. Maybe they're getting closer to finding some real evidence...I sure hope so for the sake of the families, etc. involved.

[cashflyer]

Underwater locator beacon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An underwater locator beacon (ULB) or underwater acoustic beacon is a device fitted to aviation flight recorders such as the cockpit voice recorder (CVR) and flight data recorder (FDR). ULBs are also sometimes required to be attached directly to an aircraft fuselage. ULBs are triggered by water immersion; most emit an ultrasonic pulse of 37.5 kHz at an interval of once per second.

The device is designed not only to survive accidents, but to function correctly after impact. Research has shown that it has had an 90% survival rate spanning 27 air accidents over the sea. The ULBs fitted in Air France Flight 447, which crashed on 1 June 2009, were certified to transmit on 37.5 kHz for 30 days. Investigating the crash, the BEA recommended that FDR ULBs' transmission period be increased to 90 days and that "airplanes performing public transport flights over maritime areas to be equipped with an additional ULB capable of transmitting on a frequency (for example between 8.5 kHz and 9.5 kHz) and for a duration adapted to the pre-localisation of wreckage" (i.e. with increased range).

Maximum detection range
A 37.5 kHz pinger* can be detectable 1–2 kilometres (0.62–1.24 mi) from the surface in normal conditions and 4–5 kilometres (2.5–3.1 mi) in good conditions.



* lol - http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/802901-gigs-pings-my-two-pet-peeves.html

[island911]

Lawyers are lining up to sue Boeing. ...because, you know ... CAH - CHINGgggggg. ....


http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/missing-jet/unlimited-family-payout-if-boeing-responsible-jet-lawyer-n62531

[gordner]

Originally Posted by Nate2046

No, not an engineer, just a pilot type-rated on a Boeing (not the 777) but most Boeings share a similar design philosophy. I'd be interested to hear more about the auto-takeoff feature on the MD-80 and how that works. We don't have anything of the sort on the 747-8, which is a fairly modern airplane. Of course, we do have autoland for very low weather conditions (basically blind) but it still has to be 'set up' by the crew in flight. Its not the least bit remotely operable. Its interesting that you would point out drones, because, again, they're not fully autonomous. I agree computers don't care about weight, pretty sure they don't care about anything, because they're machines.

There are multiple drone types that are fully autonomous and some operate in commercial airspace for HOmeland security on border patrols. these are not ground controlled drones, but fully autonomous with human interaction only in an emergent event. My brotehr is an ATC controller and deals with him all the time. The funny thing is it was very quietly done when they began rating them for commercial air zones, they were not very open about it at all, but they are there.
The MD80 was retrofitted witth a customs avioncis package, it was a private 19 seat aircraft with a 13 hour plus range due to fuel mods. It was far from a standard aircraft, but the systems were in place for auto take off as well. However very few destinations are rated to the proper category to accomodate it, so it is not a very utile system. Truth be told I do not think they had ever used the auto take off feature, and very very seldom were able to use auto land as well. Mostly going into corpoprate airports.
I only contracted on the aircraft for a while years ago, but a pilot ran me through the autoflight system as I had never seen another like it. He showed me a ground to ground flight plan that theoretically the aircraft could carry out autonomously. They had definitely never used it to that degree though.
My point is simply that the technology is out there. One of the biggest issues, from my very light research on the systems, is that people and machines react very differently to emergencies. Basically if all aircraft are automated, everything works well but if you have a mix, when seperation is lost on aircraft it is harder to ensure that the reaction of the machine and the human pilot in the other aircraft will not drive them together. Hugely simplified of course but that is apparently one of the larger hurdles to overcome.

[gordner]

Just a crazy situation, I really wonder if we will ever have the full story. I see on the news this morning they are going out to look at a debris field of over 100 floating items, perhaps the most promising find so far.

[ossiblue]

Latest puzzle piece.

INMARSAT indicates they received a "partial ping" from the aircraft just eight minutes after the last scheduled hourly "handshake" at 8:11am. What this exactly means is not known but what is known is the ping originated from the plane, unlike the six other pings from the handshake protocol. Further, it could not have been caused by someone on board. Like everything else in this case, the cause has multiple scenarios, all plausible.

The significance? Something aboard the plane activated a signal to INMARSAT indicating a sudden change is some system on board--the hourly handshakes were INMARSAT asking "are you there", this was a signal from the plane asking, "we need to talk." It gives a closer approximation as to when the plane went down. We know the next hourly ping, at 9:11 did not happen so instead of guessing the plane could have flown for nearly another hour, this last partial ping may indicate the plane's ability to fly ended at 8:19 am. Not necessarily that it hit the water at that time (though it could have) but that it could have been heading down at that time.

I see this whole thing playing out over several years. I think debris will be found soon, and when it is, the world will lose significant interest in the mystery because all the "hidden airplane and future uses of it" will be eliminated. It will be obvious all are lost. Finding the wreckage and black boxes will take years. During that time, speculation will continue as to cause but it will be on the back pages. Also during that time, the lawsuits will come rolling out (U.S. lawyers have already begun the process for a Chinese client and the investigation still is ongoing.) It will become a water-cooler story that pops up occasionally in the news as something is discovered. Sadly, I think the families will not know the exact location of their loved ones for years, not know how the plane went where it did, for years, and never know who was responsible.

[Tobra]

No, we will never have the full story. The Malaysian government has been lying about this from day one.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by ossiblue

I see this whole thing playing out over several years. I think debris will be found soon, and when it is, the world will lose significant interest in the mystery because all the "hidden airplane and future uses of it" will be eliminated. It will be obvious all are lost. Finding the wreckage and black boxes will take years. During that time, speculation will continue as to cause but it will be on the back pages. Also during that time, the lawsuits will come rolling out (U.S. lawyers have already begun the process for a Chinese client and the investigation still is ongoing.) It will become a water-cooler story that pops up occasionally in the news as something is discovered. Sadly, I think the families will not know the exact location of their loved ones for years, not know how the plane went where it did, for years, and never know who was responsible.

+1

it will take years for us to piece together the wreckage and analyze it. unless its an obvious problem, which judging from how we found it and what we know happened to it, its probably not ... it will take years for engineers, and technicians to figure out the sequence of events.