Pole Building Options/Ideas

[jhynesrockmtn]

I am in the planning stages of building a 30 by 30 by 14 shop on my extra lot. I bought this house a year ago after moving from Seattle to Spokane and am settled enough to figure I'll stay here for a good long while so getting the shop I've wanted is next on the list.

The purpose is to store the race car, Porsche's, motorcycle and RV and space to work on all. I have an older 27 foot rig that tows the race car to events and is also used for weekend trips with my girlfriend and her granddaughter. I have a three other stalls attached to the house for the daily drivers.

My question is what else should I be thinking about in the planning process? It will be framed for insulation and drywall. I have a separate water meter for the lot so I'll look into have water and sewer hook up for a utility sink but if they prove cost prohibitive I may defer that.

Heat? - in the floor or some other source? A friend has suggested running pipe in the slab and hooking a hot water heater and pump to circulate.
Electrical? - anything other than enough power and placement of outlets to consider?
Floor construction? I'm planning on a lift eventually, is a 4" slab adequate?

Any other thoughts or ideas would be appreciated.

[Seahawk]

The best place to review a lot of builds and decide which characteristics of the building you want is Garage Journal Board: The Garage Journal Board - Powered by vBulletin

You will recognize some posters there

To answer some of your questions, my opinion:

Build as big as you can. 30x30 sounds like a lot but it will fill up pretty quickly.

Water I think is essential and is easy to plan for in advance, sewer not so much. I did not see the need for the expense of sewage.

Go overboard on the number of electric outlets and also put in an outdoor plug. Also run a 240 line if you are planning on getting a lift or running a larger compressor. For my main shop building I ran 240 line I haven't used, but is was very cheap to get it in during construction prior to insulation and drywall, or in my case plywood.

Speaking of compressors, a lot of guys build an enclosure outside for the compressor or wish they had. In heavy use the noise can get annoying.

Lighting is key. Tons of options.

For your planned lift, the rule of thumb is 6 inches of concrete depending on the style of lift.

Lastly, I put in a nice electric ac/heating unit. I augment with fans in the summer and propane heat in the winter if I need it. The summers in Maryland are hot and stupid humid so the a/c was important. I did not feel the need to floor heating but those that have it love it

All the best...do head over to the garage journal: There are some real pros there and the build section will give you a lot of ideas.

[Crowbob]

bigger. Bigger. BIGGER. BIGGER! BIGGER!!! Then go bigger from there.

[id10t]

Always bigger. Plenty of power. Piping for compressed air. Water, maybe even hot water. Data and/or phone and/or cable/satellite

[Crowbob]

Has anyone mentioned bigger?

[ckelly78z]

We just mounted an instant hot water electric heater on the wall out near our horse wash stall for washing the horses down after a workout, or washing our hands in the Winter. It was only $179.00 and is self contained in a little 1 foot square box. It takes a 50 amp circuit to run, but only runs on demand. This is in a brand new 104x60 pole barn that will have 4 horse stalls, hay storage above, and the aforementioned wash stall. and an indoor riding arena. It sounds huge, but we put up the biggest building we could afford, and could probably still use more space.

[javadog]

30x30 won't store everything on your list, let alone give you any space to work on anything.

Make it deep enough that parking your longest vehicle and walking around it are easy. A 27' rig in a 30' deep building isn't going to work. Make it deeper for the RV, then make it wider for the rest of the stuff, so you aren't shuffling cars around to get the one in back out.

I'd put in three phase power, mainly for adding a mill and lathe, which I would have if I had that much space.

I'd definitely put in water. If you don't want to add sewer, put in a septic system.

Figure out where the lift will go and put in a proper foundation under it. A 4" slab is fine for the rest, especially if you spend an extra five or ten bucks per yard for 4,000 psi concrete. I use 4,000 HE, which is cheap. Use #4 rebar on 12 inch centers, both ways, with a proper foundation around the perimeter. Grade the site for plent of positive drainage and do a good job of building the pad. Bring in the appropriate soil, if needed and compact it well. Do it ahead of time (like 6 months) and let it get happy.

Consider dividing it into zones, so you don't have to heat and cool the RV/storage half to the same level as the workshop.

[john walker's workshop]

i have a 30X32 and it's good for 2 cars and a bunch of parts. no real room to do any work on them. double that at least for a decent storage/working shop. luckily i have my commercial space.

[mreid]

I agree with all. My only additional suggestion is a floor drain. It will come in handy.

[1990C4S]

Heat the floor.

[TheMentat]

Floor heat is great. My neighbour kept it really simple by using a hot water tank / expansion tank / pump to heat the floors. I installed a bathroom with potable water, so it got more complicated to heat the floors for me.

You may want to keep in mind where any anchor bolts need to go when installing a lift. I left some areas without heat tubing to prevent any punctured tubes.

[scottmandue]

10 plus post and no pole dancing reference?
SLACKERS!

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by jhynesrockmtn

Heat? - in the floor or some other source? A friend has suggested running pipe in the slab and hooking a hot water heater and pump to circulate.

Fine if you are going to heat it continuously. If you are going out to tinker for a weekend morning or afternoon you need a big blast of hot space heater air.

Originally Posted by jhynesrockmtn

Electrical? - anything other than enough power and placement of outlets to consider?

Go big. 200 amps with 220 is a minimum.

Originally Posted by jhynesrockmtn

Floor construction? I'm planning on a lift eventually, is a 4" slab adequate?

I can't help you there, but if I was doing it I would check out lifts that are on my list of possibilities, decide where I want it, and design that area of the floor to the specs required for the lift.

[LakeCleElum]

Thoughts: Pole building is a lot cheaper than stick build as where you live your footings would have to be down 4 to 5 ft. My neighbor just paid $38,000 to build a stick build 24 x 24 detached garage, no heat. Pole building much cheaper.

My garage is 48 x 32 x 10......I have tried many heat sources and haven't been happy till this year. My guess is you will not heat it all the time and will want it to warm up quickly while you are working there?

Over the summer, I did a ceiling mounted propane heater 80,000 Btu, I own my own propane tank. It can be 32 when I turn it on and warm enough to work in a sweat shirt in 10 minutes....Ceiling mount frees up floor space.

I you want to only heat while working there, (cheapest way to go), you will need a way to drain your plumbing and blow out the lines in the winter. I have done this on my cabin and my house......Drain to the lowest point. Intall fittings for your air hose near where the water comes into the building.....Then flush toilet, open faucets and blow out the lines. Keep presurre under 50-60 lbs........At little anti-freeze in the toilet bowl and drain traps and you can walk away and not pay to keep heated.......

Wiring: Did my cabin myself and paid an electrician to put in the box....Permit was in his name, he checked my work and inspector signed off with no drama . Be sure to do 220 for a compressor or whatever.

Plumbed in copper, did it all myself........

Word to wise: At my last house, I built a 36 x 28 x 8 detached w/o a county permit.......That will be an issue when I sell and really wished I had did it right back in '94....Not worth the headaches it will be soon causing me.........

[onewhippedpuppy]

Another vote for a floor drain, as well as heat and A/C. I now have a shop with forced air heat and A/C and won't go back.

[diverdan]

Large roof overhangs, 2 -3 foot to keep the rain away from the foundation. Use 12 foot wide commercial doors with big windows preferably facing south. A portico over the entrances for working outdoors in the shade and keeping water away from the doors. Go at least 32 foot wide to allow a man door and two 12 foot doors on the gable end so that all are protected by the portico. I placed my doors facing the highway and situated so that they were visible from the house and my neighbors homes so that anyone could be seen entering. Also, you should have barricades that would keep intruders from concealing a vehicle. As big as you can. Originally I built a 24x32, then a 32 x 48 and then a 32 x 56. They are all packed as are my drive in basement and three 48 foot trailers. The next one will be at least 48 feet wide and perhaps 100 feet long. Then my side yard will be pretty much full. Have smaller shedded areas for lawn mowers, atvs, snowmobiles, jet skis, etc. Keep them out of garage space.

Good luck.

Dan

[UncleRay]

If it were mine to build a few things to consider.
-lots of good advice from previous replies
-insulate under the concrete whether it's in ground heat or not in ground, 2 inches of the proper Styrofoam type
-heavy plastic sheeting under the concrete so it won't sweat in the spring when frost comes out of the ground
-spray foam the studs. Costs more but it works, keeps it cool in summer and warm in winter.
-sheet rock is ok, suggest 3/4" of plywood from the floor part way up or all the way up. Great for installing hangers and it does not dent. Paint it your favorite color. Seen garages were it was plywood walls and ceiling, nicely done.
-220 volt must, 200amp
-I'm undecided for wiring, in wall romex is neat but not as easy to modify. External conduit is easier to service, modify and probably costs more. I'll let the electricians provide pros and cons.
-If using a high efficiency furnace, find out if it must be winterized when out of service to prevent water freeze damage
-Insulated heavy duty garage door with "insulated" glass accents or windows, double roller hinges, extra cross braces for stiffness, you'll appreciate it during the first hard wind storm.
-4 foot insulated service door. Motorcycle, 4 wheelers, snowmobiles go right in without losing all the heat by opening the big door.
-2 ceiling fans to move the heat around.
-check the codes for type of heat source for in floor heating. IIRC the heat cannot come from a water heater used for potable water in the house. Example, cannot heat the garage and heat water for a sink, etc.. Has to be stand alone, but check the codes for correct up to date info
Good luck with the project. Ray

[tadink]

FLOOR HEATING - I think you'll like the idea of floor heating particularly if you use some solar hot water collectors and heat it for 'free' - or nearly so. Spokane has plenty of solar irradiation - even in the winter when it is cold out - and the solar hot water collectors will keep your space toasty all winter long.....using gas or elec as a back up is nice if you get a blizzard, but using gas or elec for fulltime heating will be cost prohibitive. The solar hot water panels don't take up much room - and you could also install solar electric / PV panels on the rest of the roof to offset some of your elec loads....

sounds like fun!

td

[id10t]

Originally Posted by diverdan

Have smaller shedded areas for lawn mowers, atvs, snowmobiles, jet skis, etc. Keep them out of garage space.

Good luck.

Dan

Keep building outbuildings and you won't need the lawn mower(s) any more

[LakeCleElum]

Originally Posted by diverdan

They are all packed as are my drive in basement and three 48 foot trailers. The next one will be at least 48 feet wide and perhaps 100 feet long. Then my side yard will be pretty much full. Have smaller shedded areas for lawn mowers, atvs, snowmobiles, jet skis, etc. Keep them out of garage space.

Dan - We have too many toys ...........So I'm told all the time...