The Apple of .....

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by J P Stein

I need to get away from this POS & go back to Windows.

A lot of people like Macs, so you should be able to sell it for not much of a loss and go back to Wondows. Win for everyone!

[J P Stein]

A good thought, but the wife has laid claim to the Apple.

All is not perches & cream with Windows. My last Windows OS was Vista. the "new, improved" version is Windows 8 and I don't like it much. I will get a free download of Windows 10 in late July....or so says Microsoft. Windows 8 seems to be an icon driven which loads up the screen with a bunch of drivel. 10 will probably be worse & even more compatible with "touch screens".

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Joe Bob

Didn't Gates, steal his Op Sys from Apple?

Gates' first OS was ms-DOS.

IBM PC DOS (and the separately sold MS-DOS) and its predecessor, 86-DOS, resembled Digital Research's CP/M—the dominant disk operating system for 8-bit Intel 8080 and Zilog Z80 based microcomputers. DOS instead ran on Intel 8086 16-bit processors. Starting with MS-DOS 1.28 and PC DOS 2.0 the operating system incorporated various features inspired from Xenix, Microsoft's variant of Unix.

When IBM introduced the IBM PC, built with the Intel 8088 microprocessor, they needed an operating system. Seeking an 8088-compatible build of CP/M, IBM initially approached Microsoft CEO Bill Gates (possibly believing that Microsoft owned CP/M due to the Microsoft Z-80 SoftCard, which allowed CP/M to run on an Apple II[2]). IBM was sent to Digital Research, and a meeting was set up. However, the initial negotiations for the use of CP/M broke down; Digital Research wished to sell CP/M on a royalty basis, while IBM sought a single license, and to change the name to "PC DOS". Digital Research founder Gary Kildall refused, and IBM withdrew.[2][3]

IBM again approached Bill Gates. Gates in turn approached Seattle Computer Products. There, programmer Tim Paterson had developed a variant of CP/M-80, intended as an internal product for testing SCP's new 16-bit Intel 8086 CPU card for the S-100 bus. The system was initially named QDOS (Quick and Dirty Operating System), before being made commercially available as 86-DOS. Microsoft purchased 86-DOS, allegedly for $50,000. This became Microsoft Disk Operating System, MS-DOS, introduced in 1981.[4]

[flipper35]

But Bill's first GUI was build after there were a few others on the market.

Back before the modern OS on Macs (the early 90s) I could not stand to work with them. They were clunky, disk swapping pieces of crap if something went wrong. The OS was also a poorly written mess that made the unit much slower than it should have been. With the newer OS they have rectified a bunch of that. In a laptop I wouldn't mind but in a desktop you are still a bit handicapped on which hardware you can use, as in video and sound cards. Or, at least you were a couple years ago still.

[Deschodt]

Some people embrace change, some hate it... Not judging here, if you have no time or inclination to learn the new device, swap it for something else, those are just tools...

The irony is the Mac OS can be difficult for long time Windows users because you have to *unlearn* sometimes illogical habits and think "how would I do that logically", which is not always easy to do... For instance, my tech-adverse parents took to the Ipad like ducks to water, but cannot get used to a Mac or Windows 8 because they only know XP.

When I went back to a Mac at home after many years of XP/7 only, I was annoyed and confused for a few days too... The trick is to be open to relearn a thing or 2 and approach it as a clean slate, it's mostly an attitude thing - "how would I do this if I designed the OS?"... Once you do, it's really nice... Stable, robust... I had a Mac Pro once that crashed one time in 7 years of usage. One friggin' time - and that was self induced, after I changed the video card.

[techweenie]

Ha. I'm always amused by threads like this.

I built my first computer in 1976. Had a few, but none made sense until the Mac came out. Microsoft was my client at the time and they devoted 1/2 their app dev resources to the Mac in 83, saying there's no reason anyone would stick with MSDOS once they saw it (and of course, Windows was in development, but missing every deadline).

When I was producing the Automotion catalog through the 80s and 90s, I figured out I saved over $250K in production costs by doing electronic publishing on the Mac that simply wasn't possible on a Windows platform.

I worked in offices that standardized on Windows from time to time, and found NT to be a pretty good OS, but nothing since then has been anything less than awful to work with.

I got a Surface last year to see if Windows had progressed beyond the brain-damaged state, but no, it was truly awful. I like computers that don't get in the way of the work, and Mac/OSX does that for me.

[winders]

Originally Posted by J P Stein

A good thought, but the wife has laid claim to the Apple.

All is not perches & cream with Windows. My last Windows OS was Vista. the "new, improved" version is Windows 8 and I don't like it much. I will get a free download of Windows 10 in late July....or so says Microsoft. Windows 8 seems to be an icon driven which loads up the screen with a bunch of drivel. 10 will probably be worse & even more compatible with "touch screens".

Now I understand. There is no satisfying you. Even a change from one Windows version to another is enough to bring out your inner curmudgeon.

Any additional posts are a waste of bits......

[J P Stein]

I am a gear head and have been for about 50 years......last 40 or so as a serious amateur wrench turner. I am amused by threads posted on the net by wannabe gear heads.
I assume we all have a main focus interest that are overlapped by tools like computers.
Change is good as long as it doesn't interrupt our main focus......a pukeing computer will do this... which got me going on this.......ah...shift of focus. I'm working my way out of the woods, but my need more help. This forum is usually a good spot to get some assistance......the rebukes are part of the price one pays.......nuthin' new there. As my daddy usta say "Deal with it"

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by winders

Now I understand. There is no satisfying you. Even a change from one Windows version to another is enough to bring out your inner curmudgeon.
.

I would not be as harsh, he said he also disliked Win8's interface, that's a sign of intelligence ;-) Even Microsoft is backing away from that...

It is hard to switch to a Mac initially, harder than the marketing would have us believe, but it's a worthwhile endeavor - and you can easily run Windoze on one these days! It's much easier for folks who have no previous Windows experience.

There are still features that are lacking in OSX - keyboard shortcuts on dialogs is a glaring and infuriating one, right click "send to email" is another... All of which can be remedied with applescript/automator (I built my own send to email) or aftermarket utilities, but even as a fanboy, I'll admit there's a learning curve - new users won't know that ! Actually more of an 'unlearning' curve....

PS: as I get older myself, I find it's not a matter of being unwilling to learn new OSes, it's a matter of free time and frustration... I don't have time to $%#$% around with software that moves everything in a different place for the sake of looking new and charging an upgrade (MS office ribbon menus anyone, seriously?)

[winders]

Originally Posted by J P Stein

I am a gear head and have been for about 50 years......last 40 or so as a serious amateur wrench turner. I am amused by threads posted on the net by wannabe gear heads.
I assume we all have a main focus interest that are overlapped by tools like computers.
Change is good as long as it doesn't interrupt our main focus......a pukeing computer will do this... which got me going on this.......ah...shift of focus. I'm working my way out of the woods, but my need more help. This forum is usually a good spot to get some assistance......the rebukes are part of the price one pays.......nuthin' new there. As my daddy usta say "Deal with it"

So far, all I have seen from you is complaints. You have not asked for help. You bashed Mac OS X and then you bashed Windows 8.

You don't like what you know and you like what you don't know even less. Based on this, I suspect you won't like Windows 10 either because it is different again.

How can we help you? I still suspect that, in the long run, Mac OS X would have been great for you...even if you did have to find a new picture editing program.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Deschodt

...There are still features that are lacking in OSX - keyboard shortcuts on dialogs is a glaring and infuriating one, right click "send to email" is another...

What keyboard shortcuts are you looking for in dialogs?

As far as right click to email. A file? That's right click->Share->Email

[foxpaws]

Originally Posted by J P Stein

A good thought, but the wife has laid claim to the Apple.

No doubt a highly intelligent woman with exceptional taste, well, in computers

[930addict]

I was the staunchest of windows folks in my younger years. I read an article about OS X and decided to give it a whirl. I bought my first MAC in 2001 and I too had frustrations. What set me off is that I couldn't figure out how to install my new laser printer. I could neither find the utility to install it, nor did the printer come with OS X drivers on the CD. I toiled for a few evening until I stumbled across the utility and learned that not only did it already install the printer automatically but the driver install was automatic. I never looked back and have even converted about 15 friends. One of which hated MAC's as much as I used to like Wintel. He now has more macs at his house than I do.

I tried convincing my dad to get a mac. He got a Dell. He has had so many problems with it he said he was going to send it back (too late now) and get a mac like I suggested. Some people just don't take to change well. Bottom line - whatever floats your boat!

[aschen]

Computers are basically commodities these days for home use, so I buy $400 pcs vs $1300 Mac


For work, I use PCs as they (historically anyways) have been the default for technical engineering computation

[930addict]

Actually a home user would do quite well with a $499 mac mini.

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by aschen

For work, I use PCs as they (historically anyways) have been the default for technical engineering computation

Drifting off topic slightly but why not... For the first time, I work in a true mixed environment, Mac + PC, 30000 machines (80%Wintel, 20%Mac). Macs have come a long way in the business world but apparently they're not all the way there yet... In terms of Enterprise AD support, login scripts stuff, parity when it comes to deployment tools (SCCM, BigFix vs Casper), or dev tools, etc... they're not 100% equal yet. Not the Mac's fault necessarily, just a matter of the platform not having been used in that arena as long... But they work well enough to be used side by side - most people pick them because of the form factor (lighter & thinner laptops) and use them to start remote session into their desktop PCs !! Kinda ironic ! They are extremely popular because I can tell they get stolen a lot more, on the order of a 20:1 ratio company wide ! Nobody wants your Dell ;-)

Originally Posted by 930addict

Actually a home user would do quite well with a $499 mac mini.

That's what I did when the new MacPro turned out not to be what I wanted... Although I'd recommend the $699 one with a fusion drive. It's fine! I even get retina output out of it... Very pretty !

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by J P Stein

I am a gear head and have been for about 50 years......last 40 or so as a serious amateur wrench turner. I am amused by threads posted on the net by wannabe gear heads.
I assume we all have a main focus interest that are overlapped by tools like computers.
..."

Hope I ain't never amused you over in tech like these thread amuse me too

Originally Posted by winders

So far, all I have seen from you is complaints. You have not asked for help. You bashed Mac OS X and then you bashed Windows 8.
....

Why not bash 'em...they both suck

Originally Posted by foxpaws

No doubt a highly intelligent woman with exceptional taste, well, in computers

Gotta watch them wimins JP....some day she's gonna say: Just try the apple JP, just once....what harm could come from it

Originally Posted by aschen

Computers are basically commodities these days for home use, so I buy $400 pcs vs $1300 Mac


For work, I use PCs as they (historically anyways) have been the default for technical engineering computation

Same here....as a systems professional, I never saw a Mac, and it's because most software either ran on Unix or Wintel machines. But then again, I spent most of my career w/ operating systems that ran on multi-million $ hardware, and servers that ran a few hundred grand a pop. All of this nonsense is about a disposable #2 pencil....I spend about $400 every 8-10 years, but y'all keep buying them apples....PLEASE

[930addict]

Originally Posted by Deschodt

Drifting off topic slightly but why not... For the first time, I work in a true mixed environment, Mac + PC, 30000 machines (80%Wintel, 20%Mac). Macs have come a long way in the business world but apparently they're not all the way there yet... In terms of Enterprise AD support, login scripts stuff, parity when it comes to deployment tools (SCCM, BigFix vs Casper), or dev tools, etc... they're not 100% equal yet. Not the Mac's fault necessarily, just a matter of the platform not having been used in that arena as long... But they work well enough to be used side by side - most people pick them because of the form factor (lighter & thinner laptops) and use them to start remote session into their desktop PCs !! Kinda ironic ! They are extremely popular because I can tell they get stolen a lot more, on the order of a 20:1 ratio company wide ! Nobody wants your Dell ;-)



That's what I did when the new MacPro turned out not to be what I wanted... Although I'd recommend the $699 one with a fusion drive. It's fine! I even get retina output out of it... Very pretty !

Our environment is about the same size and we run mixed as well. Probably more like 1% Macs, though. All the executives have macs and many of the IT staff prefer to work on a Mac. I have a macbook pro that I use for work. It's pretty seamless nowadays especially with so many enterprise applications being web based. I run VM's on mine for development work which requires Windows.

Funny story - we are in the middle a huge project requiring MS professional services. At any one time we have about 15 field engineers on site and the majority of them use Macs. Also, we hired an ex-MS professional services engineer as a contractor and even he uses macs.

[VINMAN]

These Apple vs PC threads, are worse than the religious vs atheists threads over in PARF...


.

[aschen]

Originally Posted by 930addict

Actually a home user would do quite well with a $499 mac mini.

Exactly what I was talking about wrt high pricing.

$500 for a small low power desktop and it doesn't come with any I/O devices?


It does have a nice aesthetic design. Apple is definitely good at that