Ever been dead?

[M.D. Holloway]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

You've got it "bass ackwards". The SOB that lies cheats and steals thinks there is nothing after this life so better get what you can regardless of the pain he causes others. I think that people would be more kind and loving if they understood that they are going to answer for the things they do in this life. You can get away with it here but there is an all seeing God that doesn't grade on a curve and Johnny Cochran won't be able to plea bargain you a better deal.

The concept of no afterlife is wishing and hoping you won't have to answer for your actions. Whistling past the graveyard.

Its a made up deal so religion can have power over its people. Provides the 3 C's which is the basis of humans governed, then it just turns into a pizz'n match over whose God is greater, whose heaven is better...then you get those that think that through sacrifice and deeds to promote their God they garner a better seat in heaven...its a load of crap designed to promote power and control.

[Charles Freeborn]

I arrested for about 30 seconds during a gall bladder surgery. Vasovagal response from the pressure caused by inflating my abdomen for the procedure.
No white light, no virgins....
Scared the snot out of my wife when the doc took an hour to show up after the surgery to give her the de-brief. He was probably on the phone to his lawyer and insurance broker...I knew something was up when I woke up back in the pre-op ward all plugged into monitors rather than the recovery room.
-C

[sammyg2]

Ever been dead?

Yes, and there IS life after death, for SOME of us.

[rfloz]

Originally Posted by john70t

Lidocaine?

Yes. Thanks.

Originally Posted by pavulon

Intra-vascular injection (injection directly into a vein or artery) or over-administration of local anesthetics can result in a range of problems from relatively small to catastrophic.

People tend to experience exposure to local anesthetics most frequently in dental offices and so tend to experience most of their side-effects and complications in dental offices.

Local anesthetic systemic toxicity occurs when local anesthetic medications do their "thing" on the nerves in your brain and/or the nerves in your heart. Enough local anesthetic makes it slow way down or stop. Long or short-acting local anesthetics don't discriminate and perform as advertised and can make for a long or relatively short resuscitation. Oddly enough, IV lipids (fat) is bacon saver in these situation.

Local anesthetic medications can also can induce a seizure or more when enough hits the brain in a short time.

Anesthesia and surgery folks use it in very large doses/volumes and can also have a Maalox moment if things go unintended directions.

More information here:

Medscape: Medscape Access

If I follow you correctly, you see the anesthetic as causal.

The cardiologist I saw immediately after my "death" seemed pretty sure it was the epinephrine included with the lidocaine that that caused the Bradycardia (very rapid uncontrolled heart rate) that caused the heart to stop, not the anesthetic in the lidocaine.

I've been told by doctors that epinephrine is often given to people to revive them after heart stoppage. Of course, not directly into a vein.

[bivenator]

Bradycardia is not a rapid heart beat, it is a slow heart rate. Tachycardia is the rapid HR.

[pavulon]

If you experienced marked bardycardia (heart rate <<60/minute) it was an accidental intra-vascular injection of local anesthetic--or possibly a situation called a vaso-vagal episode.

If you experienced marked tachycardia (heart rate >>100/minute) it was likely caused by an accidental intra-vascular injection of epinephrine making your heart race faster and/or contract more irregularly than your body's compensation mechanisms could accommodate.

You seem to be writing bradycardia but describing tachycardia.

Lots of people have a heart rate <60 or >100 every day or at times during the day/week/month... . Heart rate by itself (within reason) does not denote the entire story. Heart rates of <35ish or >200ish in average adults may be the entire problem but are rare and perfusion of tissues remains key.

Epinephrine is made and circulated by everyone every day. A blast of it from you (fright...) or a syringe (accidentally or intentionally into a vein) can not only make your heart rate go up (or really up) but also make a heart irritable and prone to irregular beating. Irregular or really rapid heart contractions do not push blood out of the heart effectively. The resulting lack of output degrades perfusion resulting in tissues and cells failing to get the oxygen and nutrients needed to carry on their metabolism normally. If the under-perfused tissue/cells are in your brain, you become can become distressed, confused, "light headed" or experience loss of consciousness.

So, imo it could have been either or both. It doesn't seem like you were told you had a seizure...however in a panicked dental office it may have been missed. It would also be really rare to have a dental dose of local kick off a seizure so I think your cardiologist was on the right trail.

Academically, the 15 second flat-line the paramedic described could have been induced by a defibrillation/cardioversion (shock) or a possibly a medication called adenosine which is well known to produce a few seconds of flat-line.

Lastly, not long ago lidocaine was routinely administered via bolus and/or infusion as treatment for irritable heart rhythms. It worked by "dulling" the nervous system in the heart but would occasionally result in a heart rate that was too slow.

That's probably more than you wanted to know so I'll cut it off there. Glad you're ok and it would be interesting to see your rhythm strips for this event.

Originally Posted by rfloz

If I follow you correctly, you see the anesthetic as causal.

The cardiologist I saw immediately after my "death" seemed pretty sure it was the epinephrine included with the lidocaine that that caused the Bradycardia (very rapid uncontrolled heart rate) that caused the heart to stop, not the anesthetic in the lidocaine.

I've been told by doctors that epinephrine is often given to people to revive them after heart stoppage. Of course, not directly into a vein.

[911SauCy]

Originally Posted by M.D. Holloway

Life is so precious. Seems like those who believe in a life after death put less value on the life of today.

Right there with you.

In my personal experience, those who believe in an "afterlife" are less mentally able or purposefully unwilling to grapple with reality of infinite rest. This is by no means to be intentionally or unintentionally hurtful to anyone on the board here but I've had many trials and tribulations with family who are incredibly short sighted and "hopeful"...we don't see eye to eye as they usually use their beliefs as reasons to not make the right choice every time in the here and now.

[911SauCy]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

You've got it "bass ackwards". The SOB that lies cheats and steals thinks there is nothing after this life so better get what you can regardless of the pain he causes others.

Read through some of the "last words" uttered by death row inmates prior to execution. Granted some are just hard arsed folks who don't care, but the majority make some sort of reference to God, being sorry and coming to a better place.

These are some of the worst people, using the idea of another chance/afterlife as a away to make themselves comfortable with facing their eminent death.

[rfloz]

Originally Posted by pavulon

You seem to be writing bradycardia but describing tachycardia.

You are probably correct. This was more than 20 years ago and we all know how tricky memory can be.

Originally Posted by pavulon

Epinephrine is made and circulated by everyone every day. A blast of it from you (fright...) or a syringe (accidentally or intentionally into a vein) can not only make your heart rate go up (or really up) but also make a heart irritable and prone to irregular beating. Irregular or really rapid heart contractions do not push blood out of the heart effectively. The resulting lack of output degrades perfusion resulting in tissues and cells failing to get the oxygen and nutrients needed to carry on their metabolism normally. If the under-perfused tissue/cells are in your brain, you become can become distressed, confused, "light headed" or experience loss of consciousness..

I was light headed the first go around. The second, and recorded blackout, was just instant black.

Originally Posted by pavulon

So, imo it could have been either or both. It doesn't seem like you were told you had a seizure...however in a panicked dental office it may have been missed. It would also be really rare to have a dental dose of local kick off a seizure so I think your cardiologist was on the right trail.

No one mentioned seizure to me.

Originally Posted by pavulon

That's probably more than you wanted to know so I'll cut it off there. Glad you're ok and it would be interesting to see your rhythm strips for this event.

Always interested in learning so, no, not more than I want to know. I am guessing you are an M.D. Regardless, thanks for the input.

I'll try to find the printout and scan the relevant part of it. If I succeed, I'll post it. My, perhaps shaky, memory is the line was somewhat erratic, then very fast and erratic, then flat line.

And, yes, I feel very lucky to be alive.

[Crowbob]

Interesting. I've had great friends and family pass away like everybody else has. I find comfort knowing they have transcended their corporeal lives into some someplace better after having lived honorable, helpful and caring lives.

I try to live my life like they had. Perhaps in hope that I may meet them again on the other side. If that's a stooped delusional kind of thinking, then call me a crazy moron.

[VINMAN]

Originally Posted by Crowbob

Interesting. I've had great friends and family pass away like everybody else has. I find comfort knowing they have transcended their corporeal lives into some someplace better after having lived honorable, helpful and caring lives.

I try to live my life like they had. Perhaps in hope that I may meet them again on the other side. If that's a stooped delusional kind of thinking, then call me a crazy moron.

Thank you. Very well put.

While I'm not a "believer" myself, this world is a nasty effed up place. If people want to bring just a little bit of peace and comfort to themselves, by believing in a "higher power", afterlife, or whatever it may be, WTF is the problem?? Why does that have to offend you?? Does it really have the slightest effect on your lives?? Does it make you feel more intelligent and elitist by bashing and insulting them??

I have to say, the whole "Atheist" movement has quickly become my most hated group of people.


.

[pavulon]

Not sure anyone would (could) care about people's supernatural beliefs. The trouble starts when people attempt to cram their beliefs or lack of belief down someone else's throat...or cite their supernatural belief or lack of belief as the reason they did or are doing xyz.

YMMV.

Originally Posted by VINMAN

Thank you. Very well put.

While I'm not a "believer" myself, this world is a nasty effed up place. If people want to bring just a little bit of peace and comfort to themselves, by believing in a "higher power", afterlife, or whatever it may be, WTF is the problem?? Why does that have to offend you?? Does it really have the slightest effect on your lives?? Does it make you feel more intelligent and elitist by bashing and insulting them??

I have to say, the whole "Atheist" movement has quickly become my most hated group of people.


.

[Crowbob]

Originally Posted by pavulon

Not sure anyone would (could) care about people's supernatural beliefs. The trouble starts when people attempt to cram their beliefs or lack of belief down someone else's throat...or cite their supernatural belief or lack of belief as the reason they did or are doing xyz.

YMMV.

So you have a problem with people trying to live honorable, caring and helpful lives because they think there may be a possibility of a reward for it?

If so, what exactly is the problem?

[KFC911]

Naw....but I've got BIG plans and working on it daily

[pavulon]

Like this.

Originally Posted by Crowbob

So you have a problem with people trying to live honorable, caring and helpful lives because they think there may be a possibility of a reward for it?

If so, what exactly is the problem?

[berettafan]

Had my heart stopped twice in ER on purpose trying to flip me out of afib.

I wasn't told what was happening till after (probably a good thing) and it was a very short duration but the sensations were fading vision..maybe tunnel...and very definite sinking into the table feeling. couldn't talk but wanted to tell the doc I didn't care for the sensation at the time.

it has, actually, helped alleviate fear of death for me. it won't be so bad when it happens. of course I'd like to delay the event for as long as possible to watch my kids grow up.

[Rikao4]

wherever..whatever..
some of you choose to believe or not..
for me...
my dogs had better be there..
otherwise I'm going to be one PO dead person...

Rika

[berettafan]

I will also mention the sensation was not quite the same as getting the knockout juice before a procedure. That (knockout juice) was just downright nice and had none of the sinking feeling which I presume is really the lack of oxygen intake (aka breathing).

[Crowbob]

Originally Posted by pavulon

Like this.

Yeah. Like that. Quit running away and help me understand how or why my philosophy is a problem for you?

[VINMAN]

Originally Posted by Rikao4

for me...
my dogs had better be there..
otherwise I'm going to be one PO dead person...

Rika

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