VW diesel train wreck just got bigger....

[HardDrive]

Looks like the Cayennes and Audi's are also involved. I would bet the diesel Panamera will be in the mix.

Notices of Violations | Cars and Light Trucks | US EPA

[Nickshu]

A friend works for Subaru. He says most all automakers do this, but VW is the sacrificial lamb that was pinned for it. Right after this went down he says Subaru issued an across the board ECU reflash for most of it's cars with a very general reason why it was necessary...suspicious. LOL!! More to come after VW I'm sure!

[Craig T]

This could delay the Macan S diesel release as well. it's due second quarter 2016.

[Arizona_928]

Can you say witch hunt?
EPA can't change the parameters of emission testing overnight, and expect everything to be okay. Someone in this admin does not like Germany.

[KNS]

Originally Posted by Nickshu

A friend works for Subaru. He says most all automakers do this, but VW is the sacrificial lamb that was pinned for it. Right after this went down he says Subaru issued an across the board ECU reflash for most of it's cars with a very general reason why it was necessary...suspicious. LOL!! More to come after VW I'm sure!

And if the EPA wanted to go after more than just VW they could test Subaru cars that have yet to be reflashed. Will they, though?

You're right, they are probably plenty of automakers out there being sneaky and simply haven't been caught.

[Nickshu]

Originally Posted by AZ_porschekid

Someone in this admin does not like Germany.

Not to PARF this out but wasn't it VW that just drove the unions out of a new plant in the Southeast USA somewhere last year? Hmmm....

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by AZ_porschekid

Can you say witch hunt?

VW cheated for years. And admitted as much.

The Clean Air Act also prohibits manufacturers’ making and selling vehicles equipped with defeat devices that reduce the effectiveness of the emission control system during normal driving conditions. By making and selling vehicles with defeat devices and by selling vehicles with higher levels of air emissions than were certified to EPA, Volkswagen allegedly violated two important provisions of the Clean Air Act.

How is issuing a notice of violation a witch hunt? This appears to be a slow and methodical investigation of all manufacturers based on facts, not hysteria.

The press release claims they are investigating all manufacturers. So far they have added Audi and Porsche to the list that originally only included VW. But it's not over yet.

On September 25, the California Air Resources Board sent letters to all manufacturers letting them know we would be screening vehicles for potential defeat devices,” said Richard Corey, Executive Officer of the California Air Resources Board. “Since then ARB, EPA and Environment Canada have continued test programs on additional diesel-powered passenger cars and SUVs. These tests have raised serious concerns about the presence of defeat devices on additional VW, Audi and Porsche vehicles.

[peppy]

Porsche is included this time.

This sucks, I was shopping a Touareg TDI.

[TheMentat]

Originally Posted by peppy

Porsche is included this time.

This sucks, I was shopping a Touareg TDI.

Price just went down!

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Nickshu

Not to PARF this out but wasn't it VW that just drove the unions out of a new plant in the Southeast USA somewhere last year? Hmmm....

If you are talking about the VW plant in Tennessee - no. VW supported unionization, it was pro-union, anti-UAW, union organizers who kept the UAW out. They now have a union of their own. VW is an historically pro-union company.

[peppy]

According to the link it was not for all model years.

Volkswagen Touareg (MY 2014)
Porsche Cayenne (MY 2015)
Audi A6 Quattro (MY 2016)
Audi A7 Quattro (MY 2016)
Audi A8 (MY 2016)
Audi Q5 (MY 2016)

[1990C4S]

I think any assumption about affected models and model years has to wait several months....they have limited testing resources. This can only get bigger.

From the way I read it the vehicles added were tested and failed, this is not a manufacturers admission.

[wayner]

How is this diesel thing any different than ODB computers that learn driving styles and go into gas miser mode. (Which I am sure helps with passing some kind of test)?

[jyl]

There are two different issues here.

The first is that EPA testing procedures may not accurately duplicate normal (real world) on-road driving. This is also the case in the EU. The US and EU are going to improve procedures to be more realistic. All the car companies know that their cars pollute more in real world driving than in the test loop; the emissions controls, even though fully operational, don't work as well in the real world. This seems to apply to gas as well as diesel cars, from many carmakers. So, the regulators will have to decide how much slack to cut, and the carmakers will have to improve their controls, to meet somewhere in the middle.

The second is that VW diesels included software that is specifically designed to turn on full emissions controls during emissions testing, and turn off emissions controls during other driving. That is a deliberate evasion of pollution laws. As far as I know, VW is the only company that did that. If another company did it too, then that CEO had better be looking for his golden parachute. VW is throwing engineers under the bus as hard as it can, but that isn't enough.

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by Nickshu

Not to PARF this out but wasn't it VW that just drove the unions out of a new plant in the Southeast USA somewhere last year? Hmmm....

And what the heck does that have to do with the price of tea in China? Talk about witch hunt! It also happened while OBAMA was president so...

[BlueSkyJaunte]

I'm certain it's not limited to diesels. My '15 GTI goes like stink and I regularly put my foot into it. Damned thing is getting 33mpg. Not possible.

[intakexhaust]

EPA needs a chill out. OK, go ahead and whack the culprit makers, do what they got to do - fines, refund portions back to buyers, whatever but lets move on people!

Mostly, I think at this point is to just leave as programmed and let owners continue with as is, don't threat to yank the tags for lack of emission test, fail codes or screw by lowering economy rating. Hear me out for a moment...

Does anyone think they contribute THAT MUCH more vs. some stinko 'die'sel from the 1980's or 1990's, current big trucks and busses? Of course the idea by govt. is to force makers continually improve, have the cleanest and most fuel efficient vehicles possible avg. out in their offerings.

Though in time attrition retires them, its off to the recycler and we're onto another vehicle. These late model so called 'dirty' burners eventually join the crusher too but they ARE NOT really BAD.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by intakexhaust

EPA needs a chill out. OK, go ahead and whack the culprit makers, do what they got to do - fines, refund portions back to buyers, whatever but lets move on people!

Mostly, I think at this point is to just leave as programmed and let owners continue with as is, don't threat to yank the tags for lack of emission test, fail codes or screw by lowering economy rating. Hear me out for a moment...

Does anyone think they contribute THAT MUCH more vs. some stinko 'die'sel from the 1980's or 1990's, current big trucks and busses? Of course the idea by govt. is to force makers continually improve, have the cleanest and most fuel efficient vehicles possible avg. out in their offerings.

Though in time attrition retires them, its off to the recycler and we're onto another vehicle. These late model so called 'dirty' burners eventually join the crusher too but they ARE NOT really BAD.

Interesting that you make the standards are too high argument. Half of all academia fraud uses that defense.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by wayner

How is this diesel thing any different than ODB computers that learn driving styles and go into gas miser mode. (Which I am sure helps with passing some kind of test)?

It is different in that VW lied and said their cars were compliant. They are not. Not even close.

The two have nothing in common. Zero. A 'learning mode' allows the car to achieve higher mileage but stay within the emissions limits. VW had a 'test mode' (that was NEVER active on the road) and a 'dirty mode' that was ALWAYS active on the road.

The VW 'learn mode' was 'someone is checking the car, cut power and run cleaner'.

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by AZ_porschekid

Interesting that you make the standards are too high argument. Half of all academia fraud uses that defense.

Agree. But more importantly he also makes the argument that no one wants a cleaner car at the cost of increase fuel consumption and less horsepower. And I think most agree with that sentiment.