Aluminum house wiring- anyone dealt with it yet?

[URY914]

So we found a house we like and have a sale pending. It was built in 1973 as were all the houses in the area. Today the inspector found aluminum wire used for all the branch circuits. Basically all the wires in the house are aluminum. I used my google machine to search the interwebs to learn the reasons why it was used in homes between 1965-1973 and why it is a fire hazard. I've also learned how it can be remedied without total replacement of the wiring. There are a few things I haven't been able to dig up and I know my friends on PPOT will solve that.

1. I understand that banks/insurance companies want to reduce their risk and I figured after the housing crash everyone is covering their butts. So most folks living in the area that have not bought or sold a '65-'73 built house in the last 5-7 years have no idea about this problem. When did insurance companies begin requiring home owners to take action on aluminum wiring?

2. I had an electrician give me a ballpark price of $1.00/sq.ft. to make corrections using the "pig-tail" method. This is based on square footage of the house so the seller is looking at a $2,200 nut to crack. It has to be done by a licensed electrician even though you can buy the supplies at Home Depot. Has anyone paid to have this corrected and what was the damage?

This is an item that devalues the house so I'll be asking the seller to handle it at the closing. I'll get a couple of estimates to back up my request. The seller is a widower that has been in the house for 10 years so she has no idea that this problem exists. It is up to her realtor to educate her on the problem.

I'll be asking my insurance agent and realtor these same questions but frankly I don't trust them as much as I trust the folks here.

Thanks as always

[Por_sha911]

AL wire is to homes as a salvage title is to cars.
Ask your homeowners agent if there are cost or coverage differences.

[URY914]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

AL wire is to homes as a salvage title is to cars.
Ask your homeowners agent if there are cost or coverage differences.

Oh yea the rates will be higher if I don't correct it. Some companies won't touch it on a new policy.

[Por_sha911]

The question is if there are ramifications to pigtails versus replacement with all copper wire.
Home warranty companies won't offer a plan to homes with AL.
Then there's the diminished value or difficulty to sell down the road.

[fintstone]

If it were my house...
1. Aluminum wiring reduces the value of the home...even if you remedy it in any way other than replacing it.

2. Almost every home with aluminum wiring has almost no insulation...because aluminum wiring has been known to be a problem since the 80's where they first started properly insulating homes (so the walls have likely never been opened).

3. If I bought such a home, I would treat it the same as "knob-and-tube" wiring. Open the walls and run new copper and properly insulate "while I was in there". Add outlets and can lights as needed while in there. Upgrade the circuit panel as well.

4. Charging by the square footage of the house seems strange as the work is largely based on how many lights and receptacles (unless there was a code requirement by sq ft there when built).

I would use whatever I could get from the seller to help do this.

[Por_sha911]

+1 on what Fint said.
Do it right up front and you won't worry down the road. Prolly needs a new distribution box and other issues addressed as well. How much do you love this house?

[URY914]

Electrical panel has been replaced already. 200 amp service.

The pig tail fix is UL approved.

https://www.cpsc.gov//PageFiles/118856/516.pdf

[id10t]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

+1 on what Fint said.
Do it right up front and you won't worry down the road. Prolly needs a new distribution box and other issues addressed as well. How much do you love this house?

In addition while you have it open run lots of CAT5 or higher grade network cable. Sure, wireless works, but hte more devices you have the better it will be to wire the ones you can...

[wdfifteen]

For peace of mind and future resale value I would find a way to replace the wiring. How is the house constructed? Single story? Multi-story? Balloon? Platform? Slab? Crawl space? The construction will have a lot to do with the difficulty in replacing the wiring.

[Por_sha911]

I worry when a technician puts in a 200 amp box but doesn't do the pigtails. What other shortcuts have been done while working on this home?
If you are OK with pigtails then just remember that whatever you save now will be lost in resale down the road.

[URY914]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

For peace of mind and future resale value I would find a way to replace the wiring. How is the house constructed? Single story? Multi-story? Balloon? Platform? Slab? Crawl space? The construction will have a lot to do with the difficulty in replacing the wiring.

Typical Florida brick, single story ranch, slab on grad, wood truss roof framing.

[URY914]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

I worry when a technician puts in a 200 amp box but doesn't do the pigtails. What other shortcuts have been done while working on this home?
If you are OK with pigtails then just remember that whatever you save now will be lost in resale down the road.

The panel was replaced before the insurance companies required the the AL wire to be corrected.

If the pigtails are installed properly by a licensed electrician, inspected and accepted by by the insurance company where is the loss in resale value?

[LWJ]

I make my living with business insurance. The proper wire nut remedy is accepted. No stigma.

[JeremyD]

When I was in college - our house with Aluminum wire we owned in Houston, Texas burned to the ground.

Be careful Paul - make sure you know everything before closing

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by LWJ

I make my living with business insurance. The proper wire nut remedy is accepted. No stigma.

No stigma for insurance...plenty for future buyers. You will have to disclose upon sale.

[gsxrken]

All of the 15a receptacle circuits in our house built in 1967 were aluminum. I replaced all of them by cutting a small 4x4 box in the Sheetrock above each receptacle, and undoing the staple that was holding the wire to the framing stud. Then I would cut the aluminum wire just above the box and temporarily attach new copper wire to it, and go to the next box in the circuit, cut the hole, pull the staple, and now I could pull the old aluminum wire until it was all out and the new copper wire was in my hand. In this way, I worked my way around the house, and have no aluminum left.
It took a lot of weekends to do and wasn't a task I looked forward to, but like all things once you get finished and look back, it wasn't that bad. I saved many thousands, avoided a negotiation at resell time, and I have peace of mind now as well.
Go the whole way. The pig tails are a band aid.

[URY914]

In Florida the home inspectors are licensed by the state. Part of their inspection is to go to the building department's website and check if repairs to the house were permitted by a licensed contractor.

I can not make this repair myself. It was to be permitted and inspected or the insurance company will not accept it.

In the future when I sell the house a permit search will show that the corrective work was permitted and inspected properly.

[bickyd]

nothing wrong with aluminum. like your cars , they require maintenance. every six months , they need a slight snugging of the connections. yes. copper is better because of lack of cold flow. other than that, there is no difference in performance. CU=Al + 2 gauge sizes. I have aluminum wiring and sleep well at night. GSXRken, I am surprised that worked as not all wires travel horizontally. you got lucky.

[red-beard]

Our 1965 house in Upstate NY had aluminum wiring. There is nothing inherently wrong with aluminum wiring. The issue is aluminum has a higher expansion coefficient than copper. The OUTLETS were designed for copper wire. The problem is circuits near the top end of their current capacity. The repeated cycling loosens the wire under the screw. Eventually, the loose wire can cause sparking.

We had an outlet go bad on the circuit for the coffee maker.

The pigtails are for for non-outlet connections (lights, switches, fans, etc.).



Outlets should be replaced with Al/Cu outlets. They are $2.99 at Home Depot.

Leviton 15 Amp Duplex CO/ALR Outlet - Ivory-R51-12650-00I - The Home Depot

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Exactly - if it's done properly Al wiring is fine. The problem is most installers don't really understand the difference and what's required so they "do what they've always done" and that's where the problems arise. This is a big problem in construction in general - you get lots of 30-year guys in the field (usually with big egos) who love to mock anything that's "not how we do it in the real world". You really have to take time to educate these guys and then make sure they're actually doing it the "new", correct way for that product / assembly. Most superintendents, CMs, QA / QC guys and architects / engineers don't have the time (or fee) to be chasing that out so it sometimes goes in wrong as the work crews "do what they've always done" whether it's appropriate or not. Your mileage may vary and some contractors are better than others in this regard but there's a LOT of "we know what we're doing - shut up and let us get it done (so we can slam this up, collect our check and be onto the next job)" out there. It does create problems (like this one).