Elon Musk says college is 'basically for fun' but 'not for learning,'

[Sooner or later]

https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-college-not-for-learning-not-required-at-tesla-2020-3

More at link


Elon Musk says he doesn't think a college degree means you have "exceptional ability."

The Tesla and SpaceX CEO shared his views on college during a fireside chat on Monday at the Satellite 2020 conference. During the audience Q&A portion, Musk was asked how colleges and industries could make it easier for students to afford college, as well as create more access for underprivileged students.

Musk said "you don't need college to learn stuff" and that knowledge is available basically for free. He described college as a bunch of "annoying homework assignments" and said one of the main values of attending college is students spending time with people their own age before joining the workforce.

"I think colleges are basically for fun and to prove you can do your chores, but they're not for learning," Musk said, garnering applause and a few laughs.

[wayner]

When I delivered corporate courses we joked (only half joked) that our value as instructors was helping you manage you time so that you would invest it in learning while we kept you away from other activities for a while.

[sammyg2]

That would certainly explain why spaceX prefers engineering interns to have a minimum 3.5 gpa
He must be hitting the bong too hard.



https://www.spacex.com/internships

What are the basic and preferred qualifications to apply for internships?

Basic Qualifications:
Must be currently enrolled at an accredited four-year university or college
Business operations or software applicants must be currently enrolled at an accredited university or college or within 6 month post-graduation

Preferred Qualifications:
GPA of 3.5 or higher
Strong interpersonal skills and ability to work effectively in a team environment, accomplishing tasks with limited resources at a rapid pace
Intermediate skill level using Windows Operations Systems
Intermediate skill level using Microsoft Office (Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook)
Technical roles: Hands-on experience through engineering project teams, lab research, or through a prior relevant internship or work experience
Business operations roles: Prior relevant internship or work experience

[GH85Carrera]

Over the years we hired a few recent college graduates with real degrees from real universities.

More than a few were indeed just educated idiots and did not last long. College is purely what the students makes of it. Thurman Thomas was a talented football player, and he received a college degree and he later admitted he was functionally illiterate. Football players in particular and college athletes often (certainly not always!) only go to play the sport, and hope to go pro.

Lots of degrees in French History and music appreciation were just wastes of money.

The flip side is all the engineers, and scientists that have truly changed the world through their education.

[pavegeno]

I went to a challenging engineering school. Finished it in 4 years with 160 credits. Worked my a$$ off. Took out over $25K in student loans back in the 80s. I learned time management and how to perform under great pressure and an impossible volume of work. I saw students far more gifted than me crumble and fail out or turn into raging alcoholics.

I then joined the Air Force and flew rescue and special operations helicopters for 27 years and 5000 flight hours. I directly credit my ball busting college to making me comfortable in very dynamic, murky, and impossible situations. Nothing like flying in hostile territory with aircraft issues, mission changes, and someone shooting at you to appreciate that you spent your whole adult life (starting in college) preparing for these moments.

The opportunity is there for people. If you go to a party college, you waste your time and money. If you truly challenge yourself, college can be an exceptional experience that builds a solid foundation for success. You can either get a four-year head start on your peers or you can learn on the job after graduation.

Musk is right and wrong. Many people don't really take advantage of the college opportunity. But many do make the most of it.

[berettafan]

I’m not a US government trust fun child like he is, but I do run my own business and I would agree a college degree doesn’t mean **** these days

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by berettafan

I’m not a US government trust fun child like he is, but I do run my own business and I would agree a college degree doesn’t mean **** these days

Really? Maybe not to an entrepreneur or SB owner, but I wouldn't want to run a laboratory or an engineering firm with self educated project staff.

[onewhippedpuppy]

As an aerospace engineer and MBA I partially agree with him. I can count on one hand the number of college courses that are useful to me in my career. It does, however, show that someone is capable of buckling down and working their ass off for years to accomplish said degree. I’ve worked with a number of non-degreed design engineers that would make the average MIT grad look like a fool. College doesn’t make you smart, and it doesn’t make you talented. There’s not one answer to this equation, it’s many shades of gray.

[Evans, Marv]

In the '60s to the turn of the '70s I went to a college that was rated number three in the State of CA behind Berkley and Stanford in the department where I was pursuing a science degree. I don't see how you can acquire the specific, technical knowledge and how to apply it without doing the work to get a degree. I agree though there are a bunch of degrees in areas that are worthless.

[Noah930]

Would Elon have hired this guy for SpaceX?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Hughes_(daredevil)

[RWebb]

a college degree means you have "exceptional ability." as long as exceptional is defined as top 1/4 of entire popn.

~~ of all students go to college & ~~ 1/2 of those get a degree

you can calculate what different degrees mean in terms of "ability" - say EE vs. fine arts with a pottery concentration

... not that there is anything wrong with that!


a college degree is not designed to train you to do anything in particular - it is designed to educate you broadly so you will be versatile and can pick up on different careers quickly


and many people can self-educate anyway (in the liberal arts & fine arts especially)

[gtc]

I had a friend who's mad-scientist type brother was an early hire at SpaceX. No engineering background AFAIK, but he could build or fix just about anything. Not sure what ever happened to him...

[Captain Ahab Jr]

Be interesting to see what % of engineers at SpaceX don't have a degree or are self taught

[john70t]

Twice a day I do not dislike Mr. Musk.

[wayner]

The way I read it there are many ways to learn, and today much of the knowledge is no longer locked away.

A good self motivated and intrigued person can learn far more in a shorter time than an unmotivated student in a boring class with a pitiful instructor.

A motivated student and an enthralling instructor is another recipe for success
...as are long term mentorship programs

The big question is in trusting the person's knowledge, and who certifies them to be competent.
-one way is to lie
-Another way is to pay money to a "university" that will sell you a bogus degree

A better way is to go to a real university

But if you are self taught, AND can point to a track record of results, maybe the degree isn't necessary, especially if your work has to be signed off on anyway by a P-eng, some auditor, an inspector or whoever.

This raises the new question beyond what is the best way to learn, but rather who certifies the certifiers

[RWebb]

Originally Posted by Captain Ahab Jr

Be interesting to see what % of engineers at SpaceX don't have a degree or are self taught

do you have any comparables for F1?

[Sooner or later]

There are losers that went to college and winners that didn't.

I had one college grad that was hired as a fast tracker. He was to learn the process and zoom up the corp ladder. He couldn't get out of his own way. I ended up showing him the door.

I had one non college grad that was exceptional. Could do anything and everything but wasn't going to move an inch up the ladder. I talked him into getting a degree. I let him work a schedule that best benefitted him. Some days he came in at 7. Others at 11, 1, or 3. Different days off each week. He got his degree and immediately moved up the ladder even though nothing from the degree actually helped or changed him.

Funny thing is...I didn't have degree and was never denied a promotion. I worked in production, quality assurance, corp training, corp process trouble shooting, and project start up teams. With a degree I would have been in a slightly higher pay grade for the same job. Cost me about 3 grand a year once I topped out in the pay scale.

[Arizona_928]

Why does everyone eat up what that Yahoo says...

[red-beard]

Lets see....

We needed the Calc courses so we could derive and understand many of the classes, including physics. But in the real world, most of us just need up through trig.

In my work I use:

Computer programming and controls
Relay controls
Electrical Circuits
Three phase power systems
VFD and motor control
Instrumentation
Mech design and vibration analysis
Compressible and non-compressible fluid flow
Thermodynamic cycle design (heat recovery design)
Chemical reactions
Partial Pressures and analysis
Steam/Vapor phase analysis
Piping, valve and pressure vessel design
Reviews of metallurgy
Structural design/review
Solar energy modeling
System Analysis
Power System frequency control and analysis

And I also do financial modeling for our projects
Project management
Predictive maintenance
Cost benefit analysis for changes we make to our power plants

A lot of this was honed "On the Job", but I had courses that covered most of the above in College.

Sometimes it is easier to list what I don't do...

Waste Water treatment
Roads
Concrete/foundations

[McLovin]

Yes, a college degree generally doesn’t mean much.
But that’s because there’s 3,500+ colleges in the US, and 99% of them are basically “open enrollment” or close to it. Pretty much anyone can go to those, so having been admitted to one, or doing well at one, doesn’t mean a whole lot.
The student body at the 5, 10, 15% admission rate schools is a different story.
Yes, it’s not a guarantee, and you can have duds at those schools and gems at a 90% admission school, for sure.
But hiring is a lot about playing the odds.