Petrols & diesels zero, electrics one

[petrolhead611]

UK Government just announced a ban on new fossil fuel cars sales from 2040. In the meantime they are going to financially hammer particularly diesel car owners entering certain cities(the already most polluted areas). Hybrid ,and range extender cars, the ones on sale right now vastly outnumber pure electric car sales, will also be banned. Only hope they can get enough recharging points installed in the next 23 years(not that long a time, think back to 1994) and can generate enough electricity to power them(think how long it takes to build one nuclear power plant these days).
Only one model of hydrogen fuel cell car currently available in UK(Hyundai),it costs nearly as much as a Tesla, ie beyond the reach of Mr Average, and that car still depends on electricity to extract the hydrogen and refuelling points are currently so handily about 100 miles apart.
Some other countries are apparently pushing implementation forward by 15 years, ie only 8 years hence.
I'll bet the government will have to tax electricity to replace current revenue from fuel tax

[javadog]

Politicians are stupid, the world over. They never want to give us what market forces demand, they always think they know better.

[David]

I'm firmly convinced that electric cars will take over from fossil fuel cars as soon as battery technology makes a significant advancement and we may be getting closer:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bertelschmitt/2017/07/25/ultrafast-charging-solid-state-ev-batteries-around-the-corner-toyota-confirms/#66746aa644bb

The benefits are:
1. Less pollution. Yes fossil fuel power plants have emissions but they are being phased out and coal is being phased out pretty fast now that natural gas prices are so low.
2. There's less maintenance for items like oil changes and brake pad replacement. Plus electric motors don't wear out as fast as combustion engines.
3. Good low speed acceleration (0-60) where people spend most of their driving time.
4. Adds stability to electric grid. Once the cars are tied to the grid where they can supply power to the grid in addition to drawing power, spikes in the grid can be handled by stopping electric power flow to cars and drawing power from cars as needed.

[Holger]

The German government wants 1 million EV on the roads in 2020.
We now have 35,000. LOL!

[javadog]

Regarding pollution, care to comment on the other aspects of pollution apart from the air emissions? How about pollution related to the creation of the batteries and their eventual disposal.

How about the tax subsidies required to make some of them affordable?

Point 4 is a nonstarter. I don't think for a minute that using the power stored in the cars that are hooked up to the grid will have any useful effect on the grid stabilization. Feel free to explain that one in more detail.

We don't have nearly enough electric generation capacity to make any sort of significant change to the percentage of vehicle miles run by electric cars. It can be argued that where electric cars are needed the most, like for instance in California, there's already a shortage of electrical power generation capacity without factoring in electric car usage at all. Add in the threat of disruption to electric power plants, like the recent fire that crippled one plant in my area, and you have a whole new set of problems. Lastly, consider how vulnerable our electric grid is to nefarious actions by foreign enemies.

[sc_rufctr]

the Arabs must be worried... lol

[1990C4S]

Originally Posted by javadog

We don't have nearly enough electric generation capacity to make any sort of significant change to the percentage of vehicle miles run by electric cars.

There is a lot of unused capacity at night, looking at real grid demand the night is often 60% of peak day. There is still a lot of electrical energy available.

[RANDY P]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

the Arabs must be worried... lol

lower the price of oil until development of EV's go away.

PS the film "Demolition Man" wasn't a movie, it's a documentary of the future.

rjp

[javadog]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

There is a lot of unused capacity at night, looking at real grid demand the night is often 60% of peak day. There is still a lot of electrical energy available.

Granted, but let's say you replace our entire automotive fleet with electric cars. How much capacity would we need for that? You have to have size the electric power grid to satisfy the peak consumption, whenever that occurs. Since 90% of the transportation is done during daylight hours, and the range for electric vehicles is still comparatively low, what pressure do you think we would put on the grid by the reality of having to supply power to cars during the day? Then the whole notion of being able to pull power from cars into the grid during peak demand hours somewhat flies in the face of reality. How is it you're going to pull power from all of these cars when they are most needed? The most opportune time to pull power from them is at night when we don't need it.

[manbridge 74]

The regressives are afraid of clean nuclear energy. At least here in the US. So I expect this to happen right about the time certain bovines are airborne.

[vash]

cows fly?

no...pigs. Porcine..not bovine right?

when is our oil reserve gone anyways? 2040..that is within my lifetime..i'll get to see if this happens.

[GH85Carrera]

Yea, I suspect that law will be changed as they cet closer to the date and realize the elecrical capacity of the country is inadequate. What about long haul trucks?

[manbridge 74]

Why yes, porcines or bovines will work as ungainly fliers..

[manbridge 74]

What about boats, tractors, lawn mowers and assorted equipment with small engines?

[javadog]

That's probably not on the minds of the liberals, as they probably don't mow their own yards. God knows, they don't fish. How plebeian...

JR

[javadog]

Want to reduce air pollution from fossil fuels? Start with the biggest ocean-going ships.

[ckelly78z]

How many more toxic lithium mines will we need until the enviromentalists have a complete conniption fit ? I'm sure there are some endangered animals in the way of those new mines, and what about the long term effects of piles of rotting batteries.

This is all still being pushed by the global warming crazies who want to lower everyone's carbon foot print, but don't realize the countermeasures have side effects, and problems also.

My "Green" brother bought a Nissan Leaf for his travels as a methodist pastor, but has had to turn around several times on a short trip because of a headwind, or extremely cold weather shortened his effective battery range by enough, that he couldn't make it home if he continued....now that is convenient isn't it ?

[ckelly78z]

"My Uncle has a country place, no one knows about. He said it used to be a farm before the motor law" !

[David]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

There is a lot of unused capacity at night, looking at real grid demand the night is often 60% of peak day. There is still a lot of electrical energy available.

Correct. One problem with renewables like wind and solar is that solar produces during the day and wind primarily at night. They are also both subject to weather changes. A small weather change like a cloud going over a utility sized solar farm could be mitigated by thousands of batteries connected to the grid like you'd have with electrics cars that could discharge some of their power back to the grid for a few seconds.

The second problem with renewables is power storage. Wind and solar power production will soon be cheaper to build and maintain than a gas powered plant but they have no way to store the power so they're not as flexible as a gas plant that can ramp power up or down 24 hours a day. A Telsa S100D holds about 100 kWh of power which is enough to power the average home for 3 days so it doesn't take a huge number of them to provide back up power to the grid. Once the grid and cars are smart enough to know when to charge or discharge depending on the needs of the grid and the needs of the car owner (like how far they need to drive in the few days) then the cars become the power storage system for the grid. The car could be so smart that as soon as your calendar shows you have a meeting across town, it will make sure you have enough charge for the trip.