The opiod epidemic....

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

..........Heck even toothpaste is subjected to federal regulation..........

Heck, I wanna live.

FDA Bans Toothpaste From China

FDA Bans Toothpaste From China - ABC News

FRIDAY, June 1 (HealthDay News) -- U.S. health officials warned consumers Friday not to use toothpaste made in China because it may be contaminated with a poisonous chemical used in antifreeze and as a solvent.

"The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has placed an import ban on all toothpaste from China," Deborah M. Autor, director of the FDA's Office of Compliance, Center for Drug Evaluation and Research, told reporters at an afternoon briefing.

"The companies will have to prove that their products don't contain harmful levels of DEG (diethylene glycol) before it is allowed into the United States," she added.................

SOURCE: June 1, 2007, teleconference with Deborah M. Autor, Edq., director of the Office of Compliance, Center for Drug Evaluation and Research, U.S. Food and Drug Administration

I don't understand this so-called the opioid crisis, can someone post a link to a good documentary I could watch on YouTube or something?

[KFC911]

Start by reading the link PorscheGAL (Stephanie) posted...

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by Peterfrans

Well, maybe in Belgium, but here in NL we can buy ibuprofen in the supermarket.

sure, but y'all also let potheads buy there weed in shops.

Point remains that Europe has a lot lower use of painkillers.
Dentists don't knock the patient out with laughing gass for rootcanals
Chronic backpain, for the most part the best you will get is voltaren or ibuprofen.

You have to have a serious condition to get strong meds prescribed other then the few days , post operation in a hospital.

Originally Posted by flatbutt

You are exaggerating. I worked as a Regulatory Affairs professional for 15 years after 30 years as a research chemist. That "revolving door" you so blithely refer to stops quickly and more frequently than you know. It is not easy nor quick to get medications through the FDA. Heck even toothpaste is subjected to federal regulation.

Doctors in our pockets? What a joke. We can't even buy them a meal without approval and documentation.

Yes FDA officials do find employment in the industry after life in the FDA. It's their chance to finally make decent money using their education and skills. But they are subject to the same scrutiny that any Pharma scientist is and we do get reviewed, thoroughly by the gov't checking into shady practices. The Park Doctrine can reach deeply into an organization.

Anyone still under the impression that Rx meds are completely safe and without risk has been asleep for decades. Even Ibuprofen has risks.

off course ibuprofen has risks..
reduces testosterone
makes yer balls shrink with continuous use .

in their pocket, perhaps poor choice of words.
I mean, the docs are not critical
They get a leaflet of a product
and a rep tells em how that product works, obviously emphasizing on the benefits so the doc "sells" it for them.

Obviously they won't sell it by warning and listing up the side effects and risks.

Look at Michael Jackson & Prince.
both extremely talented people that ended up killed by their own MD.

Why? Because the docs felt they could prescribe heavy painkillers and keep their patient happy and not running off to another doc to get theirs.

Why are the docs not critical and stricter?
Because they have a product sheet that says how the product will fix the issue better then another product. Because it says there are less side effects and better results.

And because the FDA approved it.

Surely there is an issue if people who are working for the FDA to approve medicine.
quit their job for a higher paying job at the pharmaceutical companies

Would they get that job if they had first denied approval for a new product that will make the hiring company a lot of money?
The high paying job is like a prize for approving things.
One could argue that it's like a delayed bribe.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by svandamme

off course ibuprofen has risks..
reduces testosterone
makes yer balls shrink with continuous use .

I've never heard that before, just looked it up - wow.

[svandamme]

My doc gave me ibuprofen for my herniated disks in my back.
He was like take 2 a day. 3 on a bad day.
Those were 600 mg pills.

2 weeks later i was in for something else, he goes, i'll get you a new prescription for the ibuprofen.
I was like nah, don't need it, only took 5 so far. I can go for another month or 2. (I took 1 half on a bad day)

Now the research says that 600 mg a day is enough to shrink yer balls and kill yer libido.



Same doc, 4 years ago.. looks at my bloodwork and goes, oh, your Triglycerices are well high.
I'm like ok how high?
well , we got normal low , high and very high levels, and you are about 1.5 times the very high level. I'll put you on the strongest statins we have..

I go home, i read up.. And i never took any statins, cause they are crap and do nothing for trigli's.

6 months later, he asks me about the statins, i'm like, not taking em, they don't work for that.


That was years ago.
4 months ago he does my blood work.
he goes, well, your triglis are still high, i could put you on statins for that. but it's probably genetic predisposition to high trigli's in your case
And from more recent information i got, they don't work to well for triglis.

I'm like WTF dude, I Was the one that told you that in the first place.


Seriously, Docs are not researchers, they'll just prescribe whatever the Pharma reps tell em ...

[john70t]

Originally Posted by fintstone

They are an effective pain killer...and doctors must prescribe it for patients who claim severe pain to meet required standards of care.

True, but this is a topic of addiction and the medical/pharmaceutical industry getting wealthy off of exploiting these people. Everything goes onto insurance. Insurance distributes theirs overhead cost$ to you and me. Poop rolls downhill. That's why even basic health insurance costs so much money.

Originally Posted by fintstone

Time to crack down on all illegal drug sales and throw the book at those who sell illegal drugs.

Yes. Time to make those safer drugs legal so taxpayers don't have to pay $50k/yr/inmate for the law enforcement prison industry.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by svandamme

in their pocket, perhaps poor choice of words.
I mean, the docs are not critical
They get a leaflet of a product
and a rep tells em how that product works, obviously emphasizing on the benefits so the doc "sells" it for them.

Obviously they won't sell it by warning and listing up the side effects and risks.

I don't know if you see these American drug company commercials on tv in Europe, but we are bombarded with them, and they list all kinds of negative side effects, often making me wonder which disease is worse than that "cure." If not for tv ads, I'd have never heard of any of these drugs. I think they're intended to prompt consumers to ask their doctors about or to prescribe them for them. But they are pretty forthcoming about the side effects - thoughts of suicide, blindness, dry mouth, impotence, seizures - you name it. They are read off aloud at the end of each of those commercials.

So I have to put this back on the prescribing doctors. The drug makers can't write scripts. They can only send their hot female sales reps to the doctors' offices to convince them that their drug is better than another one already out there. What company doesn't do this? The FDA and DEA need to do a better job of policing this where the scripts get written.

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I don't know if you see these American drug company commercials on tv in Europe, but we are bombarded with them, and they list all kinds of negative side effects, often making me wonder which disease is worse than that "cure." If not for tv ads, I'd have never heard of any of these drugs. I think they're intended to prompt consumers to ask their doctors about or to prescribe them for them. But they are pretty forthcoming about the side effects - thoughts of suicide, blindness, dry mouth, impotence, seizures - you name it. They are read off aloud at the end of each of those commercials.

So I have to put this back on the prescribing doctors. The drug makers can't write scripts. They can only send their hot female sales reps to the doctors' offices to convince them that their drug is better than another one already out there. What company doesn't do this? The FDA and DEA need to do a better job of policing this where the scripts get written.

We only have limited advertisements here, for over the counter stuff.
the crap that doesn't do anything like painkiller ointment with 1 or 2% diclofenac (voltaren) in it, that supposedly will relieve you of joint and back pain but in reality only costs money and makes yer skin stick to your clothes.

Advertisement industry is much bigger in the US then it is here.
Again, the big companies have big lobbiest that ensure your politicians don't vote laws limiting their marketing and thus sales.

Until a few years ago it was illegal for lawyers to advertise here in Belgium, that only changed in recent years through some EU ruling.
But in general lawyers refrain from advertisments stating they think it demeans the way they as lawyers portray themselves and they don't wanna stoop to that level. (I can't say that without laughing)

Even Porsche, does not advertise here. They think it's beneath them to advertise like the common car brands.

[targa911S]

Originally Posted by ckelly78z

You can blame big Pharma, or the prescribing doctors if you want, but ultimately, it is the weak willed consumer who is popping the pills, and demanding more, creating an addiction.

As far as treating these overdoses, I don't see the reason to provide free, unlimited Nalaxone doses for these addicts at a huge cost for the taxpayers....let Darwin do his work.

Even with Nalaxone being administered, my rather rural county in Ohio had 19 deaths last year from the opiod problem.

obviously you know nothing about addiction..

[GH85Carrera]

No doubt the real burden is the patient begging for prescriptions, and doctors writing them to shut the patient up. There are regular stories of patients "doctor shopping" and going to doc after doc to get another prescription.

I had my hip replaced and was on some pain killers for a while. When it takes a walker to get to the bathroom the pain pills are needed. I got off the pills as soon as I could. I still have some of them in my bathroom that are several years out of date.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by targa911S

obviously you know nothing about addiction..

Obviously. Some of the drug stores here are now limiting their pain meds to a 7 day supply....kudos for them. They see the problem clearly imo. They've learned that more than 7 days and once addicted, the downward spiral of opiod addiction rears it's head.....user has no say so at the point

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

No doubt the real burden is the patient begging for prescriptions, and doctors writing them to shut the patient up. There are regular stories of patients "doctor shopping" and going to doc after doc to get another prescription.

.

Very true once addicted....and there are plenty of docs that hand out scripts without much scrutiny too that enable it. But that's after the fact....addicts ARE gonna get it....if they can't get a doc to prescribe or can't afford the "good schit", then they turn to the cheaper, impure street version....heroin.

[berettafan]

I've always been proud of my ability to tolerate pain and avoid pain meds. Had a cyst removed from my back a few years back. Cute doc asks if I want to be numbed first. I told her heck no I can handle it!

Required smelling salts.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

........... they are pretty forthcoming about the side effects - thoughts of suicide, blindness, dry mouth, impotence, seizures - you name it. They are read off aloud at the end of each of those commercials.

In the US they do those disclaimers because it's the law.

The last TV commercial I saw with my wife I told her was funnier than a Saturday Night Live skit, she agreed - why would anyone take that stuff?

[RKDinOKC]

My Doctor had the best explanation. He would give me pain killers as long as they were to stop feeling pain not to feel better.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by kach22i

In the US they do those disclaimers because it's the law.

The last TV commercial I saw with my wife I told her was funnier than a Saturday Night Live skit, she agreed - why would anyone take that stuff?

What is amazing is virtually every one of the drugs can cause diarrhea and constipation. How can it do both?

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by RKDinOKC

My Doctor had the best explanation. He would give me pain killers as long as they were to stop feeling pain not to feel better.

There is no "feeling better" aspect once addicted....it doesn't sound as if your doc even understands opoid addiction....most don't

[john70t]

At some point, the continued use is to 'stay normal' after the previous hangover so the symptoms are sometimes not yet there.

I once(one time) tried some opium hash in my youth and it was one of few drugs besides meth where I craved more directly after.
That was a tough train to slow down.

[ckelly78z]

Originally Posted by targa911S

obviously you know nothing about addiction..

No, luckily I don't know anyone who has this problem....enlighten me about what you know !

[BK911]

My sister and both nephews are all addicted to opiods. She OD' d three times. Flat lined and had to be resuscitated. She recently got a MJ prescription and can legally purchase it in DC. Now all three of them smoke all day, but are off the opiods.