The opiod epidemic....

[motion]

Originally Posted by daepp

The addiction levels in this country are getting out of hand, but it stems from a sickness between the ears of the user, not pharmaceutical companies.

No one asks the real and tough question - namely, what is it about our culture that sees so many more people per capita abusing alcohol and drugs (of any kind - including food, sex, gaming) to find artificial comfort and to hide from their realities?

I see ridiculous alcohol consumption in much of the world (except Asia), but I think our country is a bit special in this area. Probably stems from the "entertain me" mindset that we have.

My little sister died of a scrip overdose last year. She lived in Iowa.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by daepp

I'm sorry - who doesn't know opioids are addictive - then, or now?

My parents were born in the 20's. They were just average people, but when I got my wisdom teeth pulled in the early 70's they knew to warn me about the Tylenol with codeine.

Please read the accounts of how OxyContin was marketed...

Tylenol 3 w/ codeine is lightweight stuff...

Why did my doc prescribed me 50 Percocets to take after knee sugery 30 years ago when I had no pain whatsoever? I knew better too....so do they .

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by motion

....

My little sister died of a scrip overdose last year. She lived in Iowa.

Very sorry Richard....tragic

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by KC911

And if none of y'all think this applies to you....well, they're driving under the influence of this schit...just about every one . For some reason, prescription meds get a pass by LEO even if the driver is whacked out of their mind and totals 3 cars or is just TOTALLY fuked up driving at 8 am, two blocks after leaving their clinic .

How I know this? ...I was called to the scene

Not in Ohio. I suspect this was an isolated incident. I had to bail my ex out and pay towing and storage on her car more than once. LEO here says impaired is impaired. And this was 20 years ago.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Not in Ohio. I suspect this was an isolated incident. I had to bail my ex out and pay towing and storage on her car more than once. LEO here says impaired is impaired. And this was 20 years ago.

Twice for me....one accident involved 3 totaled cars...I was in the back of the ambulance when the bottle of morphine pills was pulled out of her (friend's wife) purse....she nodded off and fell asleep @ 60 mph. Later in the ER, the highway patrol copt told her husband and I that he wasn't gonna charge her with DUI.

Remember my caution re Ambien....

2nd time, my sis (total prescription addict of Oxy for over a decade), leaving the methadone clinic at 8 am, after getting her doses....TOTALLY fuked up out of her mind, disoriented, lost,....cops called me. No ticket, etc.. When the DMV sent her something about it the Methadone clinic intervened.....

The medical profession fights like hell to protect their profits and jobs imo (that clinic has 200 patients....most drive to it).

I don't have answers Patrick....the purpose of this thread is to inform.....

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by KC911

I don't have answers Patrick....the purpose of this thread is to inform.....

Then we have two data points. In Ohio impaired is impaired, where you are impairment isn’t impairment if it’s due to pills.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Bob Kontak

You are correct. I have seen it closer to me (offspring) than I care to openly discuss and I still ask what the hell are they (he) thinking. Just don't do it and get your life back together, right? Simple. Easy-peasy.

I know. I see people go the wrong way and it is unfathomable to me why they keep going. But they do. People who are smart, people who are informed, good people. They still go there.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Then we have two data points. In Ohio impaired is impaired, where you are impairment isn’t impairment if it’s due to pills.

I bet Ohio has lots of methadone clinics, and pharmacies where folks can obtain their prescribed opiates...and they drive.

Used to have a co-worker on it (nice guy, deeply religious)....he'd be in lalaland at work sometimes.... after the three totaled car incident, I took him aside and told him I was concerned about his driving to/from work....his wife started bringing him.

I will say this about the first cop....even though he didn't issue a DUI, he cautioned that if a fatality had occurred, the DA would pursue charges.

I don't have answers....

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by KC911

I bet Ohio has lots of methadone clinics, and pharmacies where folks can obtain their prescribed opiates...and they drive.

Like everywhere. At Office Max, for example.

What is the drug they give you for opiates, but not Heroin? It is in a thin flat cake form that you can bust pieces off of.

wdfifteen is right. Customer's live-in hoe did dental drugs and had a fender bender. She has a documented past history with Xanax. Spent 60 days in the hole.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by KC911

I bet Ohio has lots of methadone clinics, and pharmacies where folks can obtain their prescribed opiates...and they drive..

Sure, but if they are caught and impaired and cannot pass a sobriety test they don’t get a pass from the state pollice just because they have bag full of drugs that warns about driving after using them.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by motion

I see ridiculous alcohol consumption in much of the world (except Asia)

I don't know but have been told Japanese & Chinese are huge drinkers? It is some cultural tradition to get blasted after work?

Again, never visited but have heard stories.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Sure, but if they are caught and impaired and cannot pass a sobriety test they don’t get a pass from the state pollice just because they have bag full of drugs that warns about driving after using them.

I asked my LEO tennant for a LOT of advice when my sis was released into my custody that morning....and why she wasn't arrested, etc. These aren't cops he worked with...different city. He said it might have been nothing more than they were at the end of their shift, and wanted to go home and avoid the bs. He's a hardazz type too...no nonsense guy. The LE community is at odds with the docs/pharma on this. Methinks the cops get tired of pissin' in the wind....I dunno. When DMV sent a letter regarding my sis's driving privleges several weeks later...the schit hit the fan...she accused me of turning her in, the clinic was gonna "ruin me", all kinds of bs...went on for months and we no longer have much of a relationship....sucks. I do know this....she drives....with enough methadone in her system to kill 99% of the people on this board every single minute of the day. Is she impaired....not really, honestly, she'd pass a roadside, easy. I don't have answers...but they ARE driving here, in Ohio, and everywhere now....

MAOD is gonna have to be formed after some more folks are killed I reckon....

We, as a society, made a huge shift in attitudes towards driving after alcohol decades ago....some folks are absolutely stone cold sober, at a BAC of .1%, but we don't allow that...why the double standard? Follow the money....big pharma imo.

BTW....the OD death totals are shocking...in looking around, it apoears it's about 50-50, pharma verses heroin/fentanyl nationwide.

No answers here....none.

[Nathans_Dad]

Here's the problem in a nutshell:

A few years ago the government banned Vicodin. Know why? Because Vicodin had a higher amount of Tylenol (500 mg) in it vs Norco (325 mg) and people were overdosing on Tylenol because they were taking so much Vicodin and they went into liver failure.

It blew my mind that instead of the government talking about how people were taking too many narcotics, they ban one because it had too much tylenol in it. Anyone ever think to talk about how people should be taking less hydrocodone? Nope.

No one in this country who is in a position to do anything has the balls to stand up and tell the populace that our society is in a downward, addiction riddled spiral. Whether it be opiates, alcohol, marijuana, antidepressants, sleep aids, whatever. People want a pill for everything and don't want to feel anything.

[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by motion

My little sister died of a scrip overdose last year. She lived in Iowa.

Sorry to hear this Richard. How very sad for you.


There was a pharmacy near my old work place. Run by a very kindly old gent. It turns out he had a drugs for sex thing going with a young druggie chick. wooo, who would have thought.

In New Zealand we have a huge methamphetamine problem. And it's those least likely to manage the problem are the ones most involved in it. Plus the usual opioid shyte going on.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

Here's the problem in a nutshell:

A few years ago the government banned Vicodin. Know why? Because Vicodin had a higher amount of Tylenol (500 mg) in it vs Norco (325 mg) and people were overdosing on Tylenol because they were taking so much Vicodin and they went into liver failure.

It blew my mind that instead of the government talking about how people were taking too many narcotics, they ban one because it had too much tylenol in it. Anyone ever think to talk about how people should be taking less hydrocodone? Nope.

No one in this country who is in a position to do anything has the balls to stand up and tell the populace that our society is in a downward, addiction riddled spiral. Whether it be opiates, alcohol, marijuana, antidepressants, sleep aids, whatever. People want a pill for everything and don't want to feel anything.

Long time no see....

I need to schedule an hour with my doc. There's nothing wrong .. I just have a long list of drugs to ask him about...."are they right for me?"

Follow the money trail....there lies the solution out of this imo.

Started in the early 80s....by '88 I wasn't even cautioned about Percocets...just prescribed a bottle and sent home with no precautions, etc. none. I was one of three back-to-back knee operations for my excellent surgeon that morning....I suspect he prescribed the same for each of us.

[targa911S]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Based on my experience with my mother and my ex-wife, I believe this is true. Good on you for managing your addiction. I don’t believe addiction is something you get cured of, like a dose of the clap. It is something the strong and motivated manage, like diabetes. After what I have seen, you have my utmost respect for your decision and your strength to follow through. God bless you.

Thank you my friend... 30 years sober and counting..never a regret.

[cairns]

Started in the early 80s....by '88 I wasn't even cautioned about Percocets...just prescribed a bottle and sent home with no precautions, etc. none.

Same here. And I HATE percocet. Makes me throw up.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

Here's the problem in a nutshell:

A few years ago the government banned Vicodin. Know why? Because Vicodin had a higher amount of Tylenol (500 mg) in it vs Norco (325 mg) and people were overdosing on Tylenol because they were taking so much Vicodin and they went into liver failure.

It blew my mind that instead of the government talking about how people were taking too many narcotics, they ban one because it had too much tylenol in it. Anyone ever think to talk about how people should be taking less hydrocodone? Nope.

Vicodin (5/500) and Vicodin ES (7.5/500) were the among the weakest narcotics you could get, so no, the FDA was not interested in limiting narcotics with the ban.

What do you do for people who do have serious pain that needs to be managed so they can function? The best we have now are all addictive and decrease in effectiveness the longer they are used. We need to stop blaming people who take narcotics for pain and come up with better management strategies.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

.... We need to stop blaming people who take narcotics for pain and come up with better management strategies.

No argument whatsoever...both my sis and friend's wife have had legitimate pain from serious back issues and surgeries....initially.
The over-opiating of our society is much broader than that however....by design and for corporate profits imo.

Start there....

[Nathans_Dad]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Vicodin (5/500) and Vicodin ES (7.5/500) were the among the weakest narcotics you could get, so no, the FDA was not interested in limiting narcotics with the ban.

What do you do for people who do have serious pain that needs to be managed so they can function? The best we have now are all addictive and decrease in effectiveness the longer they are used. We need to stop blaming people who take narcotics for pain and come up with better management strategies.

First of all, Vicodin and Norco are some of the most abused prescription narcotics out there so calling them "weak" is not correct, IMO. My point is that the issue is NOT that people were overdosing on the tylenol. The problem was that people were taking too much vicodin for the narcotic component.

Second I think you are asking the wrong question. The real question is how do we get people in our society to realize that some pain, depression, tears, insomnia and anxiety are a natural part of life and not something to be dulled with pills.