homeless encampments.

[vash]

Originally Posted by WolfeMacleod

You and I have had our differences, but from the bottom of my heart - as a former homeless person myself decades ago - thank you.


I recently took in a displaced Pelican and did the best I could to make sure he could get back on his feet. My GF tolerated it for a few weeks...

you are an angel bud.

[WolfeMacleod]

Originally Posted by vash

you are an angel bud.

I'd have let him stay longer, but my GF was having none of it. She doesn't do the roommate thing very well. At least he was able to find himself a good job. I hope he's able to find himself a place soon.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by vash

that isnt even apples and oranges..that like apples and pencil sharpeners.

hahahaha

You can never leave the board, Vash!

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by Mark Henry

A fair chunk of this is from shutting down psychiatric hospitals, mentally ill crime, murder, etc., rates all jumped.
Unfortunately unless there's is a major shift in policies this won't change.

And every city with homeless problems have many empty buildings rotting away... and lots of money being wasted on stupid useless public projects.

[craigster59]

We have a problem here in the valley with motor homes. They are everywhere, dilapidated, covered by tarps and surrounded by junk. They either empty their waste tank in the gutter or just piss and take a dump outside. In one square block over by one of the prop houses there must be 60 of them.

If they are left abandoned the cops treat it as a hazardous waste site. Tow truck drivers in Tyvek overalls and respirators move them, to where I don't know. I read somewhere that guys buy them at auction for as little as $50, move them in and rent them out for $10-20 a day to meth heads and druggies. A major blight in the city, they are talking about an ordinance banning them from neighborhoods and schools leaving them to park in the industrial areas.

[Eric 951]

I just read that the CA DOT union filed a grievance as their workers are being used to clean-up encampments and are not given the proper PPE or training in dealing with the hazards--needles, buckets of human waste, feminine products, etc.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

They are there because they are left alone by the authorities. They are free to do what they want, and drugs are easy to get. And weed is a part of it as is number one favorite, alcohol. Booze is cheap.

Around Houston, you wil occasionally smell/see them smoking weed, but more often it’s alcohol, Kush, meth, crack, etc...

[vash]

Originally Posted by Eric 951

I just read that the CA DOT union filed a grievance as their workers are being used to clean-up encampments and are not given the proper PPE or training in dealing with the hazards--needles, buckets of human waste, feminine products, etc.

really? wow.

i was trained how to deal with it in our bridges..they have gotten into living IN our bridges. they cut the metal doors in our soffits and set up homes inside.

[Mark Henry]

Originally Posted by MikeSid

This.

Homelessness is primarily a mental health issue.

And the biggest problem is that it is a very complex issue the solution for which greatly affects individual freedoms. We'd have a helluva lot less homeless on the street if Nurse Ratched kept them locked in the Cookoo's Nest. We could simply lobotomize the problem away. But I don't think any reasonable human would want to go back to those dark ages.

So until a better solution is found, buy Coleman stock, because they'll be selling a lot of tents.

Lobotomies aside (IIRC in canada was stopped early 50's) , it wasn't as bad as the movies made out. Chemical restraint was better than physical or letting them self harm and/or beat the crap out of other patients, electro shock is still used, much lower levels, but it does work, etc. Treatments, just as in the whole medical field, have improved vastly.

Most of the public do not understand mental issues whatsoever. Individual freedom is a crock with mental illness, these are sick people.

My wife works in the psychiatric field.

[ckelly78z]

Where I live, you just never see any of this. I know homelessness is a problem, but in my hometown of 60,000, it just doesn't appear to be a major issue, but many full missions/shelters. I don't think the weather is conducive 6 months a year for living outdoors.

I feel empathy for those who find themselves homeless, but have problems with those that choose to be.

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

And every city with homeless problems have many empty buildings rotting away... and lots of money being wasted on stupid useless public projects.

Read and weep...for the taxpayers. But hell, it's Oregon. Who cares about them? Jail built for $58 million and never used. Sold to a private developer for $5 million who is thinking homeless shelter.

Multnomah County approves $5 million offer for Wapato Jail | OregonLive.com

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Mark Henry

Lobotomies aside (IIRC in canada was stopped early 50's) , it wasn't as bad as the movies made out. Chemical restraint was better than physical or letting them self harm and/or beat the crap out of other patients, electro shock is still used, much lower levels, but it does work, etc. Treatments, just as in the whole medical field, have improved vastly.

Most of the public do not understand mental issues whatsoever. Individual freedom is a crock with mental illness, these are sick people.

My wife works in the psychiatric field.

Yeah, but when many don't want to clean up and find a job, what do you do then? Lock them up? Is that really a better answer?

Locally we have a lot of available resources for the homeless, help is available to those who want help. For many it is really a lifestyle choice, though I agree that some sort of mental illness or other issues are a contributing factor. Fortunately this seems to be less of a midwest problem.

[tdw28210]

Left the bay area 17 years ago. After the first dot.com boom/bust cycle. SF was livable and the tenderloin district was well defined and easily avoidable. Went back 2 years sgo for work. Walked Market and Soma where my old office was (near the ballpark) WTF happened? I couldn't believe how sketchy it all felt to me. Like the 'loin had taken over the city. I used to ride my bike to work in the dark from near Van Ness Avenue. Would never do that today. It's such a shame.

[ckelly78z]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Yeah, but when many don't want to clean up and find a job, what do you do then? Lock them up? Is that really a better answer?

.

"Unemployable Island" where lazy fux go to live out their daze !

[jhynesrockmtn]

This is hugely complex issue. I run a program administering benefits for folks on "welfare" basically. The direct federal disability based kind (SSI and Medicare) not TANF. There are many issues intersecting but the vast majority that we see due to cognitive issues, drugs/alcohol, mental illness, criminal record, I would say are not capable of operating in a normal employment environment. This doesn't mean they couldn't be occupied in some type of crew/group based work, cleaning up graffiti, parks, streets, homeless encampments, etc.

Many can no longer go into various housing programs because of a criminal record, on going drug/alcohol use or just the anxiety of being surrounded by folks who are unstable , etc. I hear a lot of stories from folks trying to get "cleaned up" that are continually immersed in bad environments and surrounded by folks engaging in the behaviors they are trying to avoid.

The asset and income restrictions in these programs are big barriers to work. If folks could earn more and keep more of their benefit and assets on a sliding scale, the ones who could work would do so and the social and economic impact would be greatly reduced. Federal and state asset restrictions set at $2,000 produce a lot of stupid spending decisions vs. allowing folks to save for what a realistic deposit/1st months rent and living costs would be.

The long term issues are more complex. Housing costs skyrocketing, generational poverty and drugs/mental illness, etc. When I see folks on public assistance who the govt. has deemed unable to work coming in to pick up their checks with a couple of babies in tow, that brings me down more than anything else we deal with at work. More likely than not, those kids will be standing in these lines as they get closer to adulthood. Solve that one........

[MikeSid]

As a teenager I worked in a grocery store bagging groceries and stocking shelves. Early on Saturday morning when the bread trucks were still there, a guy walks up to the manager and offers to sweep the parking lot. He wasn't asking for a job application and just said he'd take whatever the manager thought was fair to sweep the lot. He was a little "off" but seemed honest and genuine upon first meeting.

So the guy sweeps the entire lot clean as a whistle and the manager pays him out of his own pocket and tells him to come back next Saturday. He does and this goes on for several weeks until a job opens up in the meat department cleaning up after the butchers - a messy entry level task paid at 4 hours per day. The guy gladly takes the opportunity.

Fast forward 1.5 years and this guy (who still seems pretty off) is working night crew 40 hours a week stocking shelves and is a dues paying UFCW member with healthcare benefits and vacation time. This was the peak of his employment. He lasted in the job for almost a year and then got fired. He started making mistakes, then slacking off and finally missing work. He had "Petered" out and couldn't handle the job.

I always found his experience both inspiring and tragic. It was a good thing for teenage me to see first hand. He was given a chance, but couldn't make it last for whatever reason. That, to me, is the homeless situation in a nutshell. Social programs can help and are necessary. But for some, it just won't work no matter what.

I also think of this guy every time I see someone holding a "will work..." sign. This guy wanted a job and got one. And he didn't get it by holding a sign.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by MikeSid

As a teenager I worked in a grocery store bagging groceries and stocking shelves. Early on Saturday morning when the bread trucks were still there, a guy walks up to the manager and offers to sweep the parking lot. He wasn't asking for a job application and just said he'd take whatever the manager thought was fair to sweep the lot. He was a little "off" but seemed honest and genuine upon first meeting.

So the guy sweeps the entire lot clean as a whistle and the manager pays him out of his own pocket and tells him to come back next Saturday. He does and this goes on for several weeks until a job opens up in the meat department cleaning up after the butchers - a messy entry level task paid at 4 hours per day. The guy gladly takes the opportunity.

Fast forward 1.5 years and this guy (who still seems pretty off) is working night crew 40 hours a week stocking shelves and is a dues paying UFCW member with healthcare benefits and vacation time. This was the peak of his employment. He lasted in the job for almost a year and then got fired. He started making mistakes, then slacking off and finally missing work. He had "Petered" out and couldn't handle the job.

I always found his experience both inspiring and tragic. It was a good thing for teenage me to see first hand. He was given a chance, but couldn't make it last for whatever reason. That, to me, is the homeless situation in a nutshell. Social programs can help and are necessary. But for some, it just won't work no matter what.

I also think of this guy every time I see someone holding a "will work..." sign. This guy wanted a job and got one. And he didn't get it by holding a sign.

I think this really captures the crux of the problem. For those that want to work, there is work available. Those who aren't working, aren't working by choice. You could argue the definition of "choice" should or should not include things like mental health or drug addiction, but my key point is that there is work available for those who want to work. Unfortunately our government and frankly society as a whole has also made it entirely too easy to survive without working.

[speeder]

There are some incisive observations just above this post. It is a complex problem. With no quick and easy bumper sticker solutions. MikeSid’s post makes an important and often overlooked point, being a productive member of society requires commitments and sacrifices that some people seem unable to hack. Many people, in my experience.

Los Angeles is a huge city with a large “gig economy”, IOW people who do not work a 9-5 and go from one freelance job to another. Some people are good at it and thrive doing this, I am part of this world and have done pretty well at times, gotten by at others. It still requires a lot of self discipline when there is no boss other than temporary employers and people live and die by their reputation for doing what they say they will.

Most people who cannot hack a simple time clock job would never make it as a freelancer. All work requires a certain humility and dedication, IMO. And all honest work has dignity, also IMO, which is the missing component in most of the homeless population.

[varmint]

Stop feeding them.

X% will turn to crime and end up in prison.
X% will go home to their families.
X% will clean themselves up enough to get jobs,
X% will be more easily identifiable as insane and can be institutionalized.
X% will slip through the cracks.

[island911]

Best post^

One of the Seattle camps was pressured to move. The mayor insisted that all the campers be offered free short-term housing if they were to be displaced. The camp was pushed out yet NONE of the campers took the free short-term housing offer.