What is the correct and professional way to install these?
 

I have received my new Carrera GT rear arches (for the 924 project), and have no idea how to install them :(
I know I have to cut the existing arches and weld them together to give more clearance - that i have no problem with, it is the installation of the new glass arches I am not sure about. As you can see in the picture, they have a leading edge, now I will assume to install these and make them look good, I will have to create a sunken edge in the existing body work on the car to install these so that there is not an edge that I will have to try and hide - or am I wrong about that?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1215109720.jpg

Any guidance and advice (treat me like the idiot I am at the moment) would be very appreciated :)

there is a tool that body men use that you roll along the edge of sheetmetal and it makes an indentation that countersinks the next panel or makes them sit flush. You would need to place them on the car where you want them, trace the panel, cut the fenders off about 1" or so inside the line, then use the roller gadget to sink the edge of the panel. There are some cool epoxy systems out now- one is made by Kent - that is meant for glueing panels on like that- you can glue the glass panel to the metal, then use it to mold slightly - then do bodywork over that. Should work pretty well but its a job for sure.

I like the sound of that tool, will have to try and find it...

Looking at the arches and not knowing your skill of bodywork and finishing. I recommend that you seek professional help and perhaps for $600.00 you now have someone to blame ( with a guarantee for the work perform) oppose to kicking yourself?

Now, where is the fun in that :D

Are those 'glass or metal? You dont see lips around parts like that often. Most dont like them because they hold water.

1. You can cut that lip off and just butt-weld as you would any repair.

2. that lip goes under the exsisting panel on your car(meaning when you cut your QP it should be flush with the step and not the edge). If this is the method you try, trim that lip to about half its size. You don need a lip that big.

I own that tool that they are talking about. If you were in the States I would loan it to you. I'll look for a link.

eastwood tools part# 31060

sorry, couldnt get the correct link but that is the part #

www.eastwoodco.com

Thank you for the info bt1211.

They are glass, and on first test fit are actually not that bad quality. I had not even considered the option of mounting them with the lip from behind the existing arches. That might work.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1215360676.jpg

I did find some instructions on the internet from someone in Germany who had installed these exact same arches, and he had mounted betted a lowered lip into the metal to accept the lip on the glass arches.

Personally (although it might generate more work, I like the idea of mounting from the rear as you suggest...

Paul you dont have to trim that edge because its 'glass. You'll need all of that area for your panel adhesive.

bryan

That is good to know Bryan. Would you still recommend mounting it from behind the existing panel? I do have to cut a large portion of the old arch away and weld in new metal to allow for wheel clearance of the new larger wheels, so no real issue with cutting some extra metal away at the same time.

Mounting it from behind is the way that 'glass piece is designed.

So yes, I would mount it from behind. It has that step so it will set flush with your panel. When its time to use body filler, it would only require a small amount.

Check with your paint supplier to see what type of adhesive they have in your country. After its attached, it will only require a small amount of filler to cover that seam.

bryan

Cool, then that is what I will do. Will adhesive be enough, or should i use some rivets as well?

Cool, then that is what I will do. Will adhesive be enough, or should i use some rivets as well?

You would only need screws to hold it until the panel adhesive sets. The adhesive is all you'll need. Lots of car panels are glued on.

Talk with your paint/autobody supplier to see what they have. Sometimes they have a deal if you buy enough adhesive they will give you the gun(or give you a deep discount on the gun). The gun looks like a big caulk-gun.

bryan

OK Bryan, I am back with some more questions :)

If you look at the picture I posted before, you will see that the new glass arch comes rather high up the existing car. If I cut away that much of the outer body, will it not end up very prone to bending? i am also not 100% sure now I would attach the remained of the outer wing with the inner wing when the glass arch is installed.

I have been sent the following word document which documents a past installation of these arches, and here it was done on the outside. I would really appreciate you view on this approach?

I was having trouble opening that file(I'll try it again later).

You could attach them on top of the QP if you like. Its just that, you will need more filler to smooth it out.

You wont have a problem putting them on top, if thats is the way you want to try it. Its not "wrong" to do it that way.

Its like "six in one hand and a half-a-dozen in the other".

i always thought the lip would fold back the other way towards the inside of the arch to allow the black beading to be installed. Examples:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1215572566.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1215572594.jpg

Terry you are correct. Thats why I said they mount from the inside out. I thought he was going to smooth them out into the body( to make it look more like a 944). I might have presumed too much.

Paul if the pics that Terry posted are what you are trying to achieve, then again, they are mounted on the inside-out.

Bryan

Yes, that is correct Terry. On the factory Carrera GT there is black beading between the extended arch and the body. But I am not trying to build a CGT replica, just after the clearance for more rubber. Therefore I opted for the cheaper option of arches that are not bolted on with the beading. These ones are moulded into the body, and do not have a beading installed. Here are some good pictures to demonstrate (borrowed from 924.org)

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...5/P1010469.jpg

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/i...5/P1010466.jpg

Hmmm, I have no problem - it is a normal Microsoft Word document. I can email it to you if you want?

Paul, I was having trouble on my end. I just opened it.

Again, there is nothing wrong with doing it just as the guy in the file has done it.

On top, more sanding to make it flush, under the QP, more precise cutting to get it to fit.

If you are going to try under the QP, do a cut-out on a piece of cardboard first. This way you can refine you cut-line BEFORE you start cutting on your car.

Bryan

Thank you for all the guidance Bryan.... I will assume from your advice that you either have done a lot of body work, or do it for a living. If this was your car or a car you were going to do this job on, what approach would you take as a professional, or someone with past experience?

I would prefer to install it from under the panel, as i think it will give a petter end result - visually. But I am concerned with how much will have to be cut away of the current metal QP, and therefore reducing the integral strength to that part of the car - I do not want it to collapse when someone leans on the car!!

I like to customize cars. Here is something I'm working on now. It's a 356/ghia hybrid.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1215625609.jpg

When you glue on the flare that will add ridgetty. You have to figure out what you are going to do about the inner wheelwell. Once you tie all that back together you should be fine.

I would put them under the QP. I would take my time and make a cardboard template, so I would be as precise as possible.

Do you have a tool that will cut a straight line without distortion? You could easily use a cut-off wheel on your grinder.

Bryan

Paul,
Just for reference: I found this pic on rennspd.com. These are what they sell. I am jealous of anyone who does this to a 924. One of my top projects that I will do "one day". (I think i'll look for an 87 88 924 as a starting point) This is what I thought I had seen concerning the lip folding into the inside of the flare. I get what your doing though...

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1215694847.jpg

Wow Bryan, that looks really good...

I had another look at the car today and how it all will line up. Having had another look at it I think mounting from under the QP will be best. Not sure how to link up the inner body to the new arch, but i will figure that out as I go along. I will have to mount the new suspension and get the new larger rims etc before i do this, so i can measure it all up correctly (do not want to install the new arches to find they do not line up with the new 17" rims :(

Yes Terry, that is the other style that you can get - but not the style I ended up with. For cost reasons I took the cheaper ones, and not the type that you have a picture off. I am trying to fix up this car and do the conversion within a given budget (extra fun value), and the better arches (like the ones you show, which should be mounted with the rubber beading) were to expensive! My time is not a cost factor here, as I am also using it as an educational exercise. I have done loads of welding and metal fabrication on my 911, but never body alterations - I figured give it a go on the 924 before attacking the 911 :D

I know about budget! I think everything for my 911 was purchased on the cheap. Not poor quality mind you, but used parts, good ebay scores, and nice pelicans to pass on a good deal. More power to you!

Nothing was a budget on my 911, and it is still an ongoing project (probably will never be completed!). That is why I have been enforced by my wife to have a budget on this one :rolleyes:

Ha! My budget is enforced by my wife, my 2 yr old son and my bills!
You know, now that I think of it there was a guy here in Florida that had the same flares you have. I believe he is here on Pelican. I think his screen name is 924gt or 924 gts or something like that. I saw his car at a Brumos Porsche gathering a few years ago. Looked pretty good, and I noticed the rear arches were molded in. I'll see if I can find him. Maybe he can give you some tips as well.

Just found him. Here is a pic of the car. His pelican name is 87924gt if you want to shoot him a pm:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1215799252.jpg