Oil leak from wheel?

Grey Frog · 04-22-2007, 03:53 PM

Hi all,

This is my first message on this forum

And I would need some help...

I have a 356 since a few time, and I don't well know it yet. It's the first car I work on, and no one around me to bring me some help.

Today (sad day!), I have discovered a main oil leak going down on... my rear left wheel!! I haven't lifted the car yet, but I wonder this oil is coming from the gear box, by the transmission. Could it be possible?

I don't even know how long did I drive with that leak, but hopefully, I haven't heard strange noises from the gearbox.

You guys have you ever experienced such a problem? Do you think it could be just a seal to change, or do I have to put down the engine, then the gearbox, then opening it etc?

Thanx really much for any advices, and sorry if my english is not correct!

Grey-frog

356racing · 04-22-2007, 07:03 PM

Are you sure it's not brake fluid? Easy to smell the difference between brake fluid and gear oil. Also, check your brake resevoir to be sure it is full.

Grey Frog · 04-22-2007, 11:40 PM

Thank you for the reply.

I've done that, and the reservoir is full. I've tasted the oil, and it's a taste of gearbox oil...

arcs · 04-23-2007, 07:06 AM

If it is a drum brake car, it could be leaking at the dowel pin on the bearing flange. Check carefully to find the source. If it is the dowel pin clean it up and reset with a fat punch and heavy hammer.

Grey Frog · 04-23-2007, 07:59 AM

Thanx Arcs. Yes, I forgot to say that I have a 356BT5, so with drums.

I hope your idea is the good one, I think I could repair that myself!

id10t · 04-23-2007, 09:34 AM

Leaking axle boots.... "easy" fix.

Check your trans oil level - there's a 19mm (IIRC) nut on the right (passenger) side of the trans, about the middle of the car, on the side. Undo it, stick a finger in, and you should feel oil. If you don't feel wet oil, its a trans oil leak most likely. You'll want to use 90 weight hypoid gear oil to replace it with, and you'll want a pump of some sort.

If you are a newbie to working on the 356 (or mechanics in genreral like me) then get John Muirs "Idiots guide to keepign your VW alive for forever" for the processes and what to do and how to do it, adn a copy of Elfrinks manual for the specs (torque numbers, etc) or a copy of Ken Ball's "Porsche 356 A B C".

Grey Frog · 04-23-2007, 01:47 PM

Hi,

Thank you very much for the reply on the thread about that suddenly and huge leak... I've found the book on amazone, How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive, and I'm gonne buy it! I already have some for parts etc.

Yes I'm a newbie, but I'm still young enough to learn how it works! I would like to give my lovely 356 to my children, but I don't have some yet

But I'm not well sure I realise the importance of the problem: does it need to put down the engine and transmission, or can it be repaired after some hours spent under the car?

I have no idea how much time that will take...

Thanks again for your light.

Julien.

drauz · drauz's Garage

if it leaks only at the hub, dripping down the inside of the brake rotor after it sits for a few days, and on to yur wheel, then it might be the rear axle seal. there's a repair kit - can be a bit of a job due to the axle torque setting (400 lb-ft?). good luck.

Grey Frog · 04-24-2007, 10:32 AM

Hi,

Thanks again for your help guys! I've also asked on the 356registry-talk and now, I think I have a concrete idea of the problem, and of the way I will repair it step by step. That's not gonna be that easy.

I will command tomorrow a seals kit, a spi seal, spacers, and a new boot. I don't know about the wheel bearing, but if I have to take down everythink, maybe it's better to change it (I'm sure that will also be a pleasure to take down the old one...).

Then in a few days, I may drive it again...

Terb Grubmeel · 04-30-2007, 01:30 PM

Grey Frog,

I had the same problem, it is a leaky rear wheel seal... go to your VW dealer, or a VW aftermarket shop and buy a rear wheel Seal Kit, it comes complete and costs about $ 5.00 here in Canada!

Bert Leemburg

Grey Frog · 05-02-2007, 01:30 AM

Hi!

And thx Bert.

I've taken down all the stuff easely, but the bearing is broken! it pushed the seal so that's the reason of the leak...

I heard that the bearing was usually not to change so I didn't command it.

Do you know guys if it's the same for a VW beetle?

I would say yes... I could get it faster than a Porsche one!

Thanks,

GF.

ed martin · 10:00 PM

The bearing and seals are the exact same on the Porsche as the VW (swing axle). You can pick up a copy of a VW Haynes manual for very decent description on how to proceed. The puller described in the manual works but do use bolts that are rated eight. Use a torch on the old bearing (the inner race) to ease them off.

You'll want to elevate the work as the trans lube will flow when you disassemble. The design allows fluid to travel down the swing axel tube to keep the bearings lubed.

One more thing. Do remember to replace the shims inside the housing (cover) as they seat the bearing in the proper position.This is not covered in the Haynes manual. Don't use the the paper gaskets supplied by VW for under the housing either.

Yet one more thing. I experienced failure of my new bearing on one side. Upon inspection it seemed that I had replaced the shims as they were originally and I think that is the wrong thing to do. This is not covered in the VW manual so maybe someone with a Porsche manual or more experience can chime in here. I think the trick is to pare down the number of shims one by one and torque the housing down and check for proper spin. Too many shims put undue stress on the bearing(making the spindle hard to spin) and not enough result in excessive end play. After adjusting the number of shims and fully torquing the housing I think I've solved the problem.

teleski42 · 07-12-2007, 05:33 PM

1) take off rearwheel cover and grab the rear tire at 9 and 3
2) wiggle tire back and forth while observing if center of drum hub has excess or any loose movement where nut with cotter pin goes on axle.
3) if yes, oil can spray from here too
4) remove cotter pin, get long breaker bar with 36mm? socket and remove
5) remove drum, get a thin (your guess) spacer/washer of very hard alloy to put on center axle to take up space, reassemble and repeat steps 1&2
6) go for a drive and check it out.

Terb Grubmeel · 07-12-2007, 06:21 PM

Bearing Removal... this is How I proceeded to replace the Bearing, two O-rings and the Seal.

The previous info is quite correct, I went to my Aftermarket VW place here in Calgary, Concept I, bought the Bearing and the Kit with the Seal and O-rings.

Yeah it is a bit of a chore to loosen the Wheel Nut, one guy in the car(foot on the brake), two guys hanging on the breaker bar. I had purchased the 36mm Socket (make sure it is 3/4 Drive) and a short bar (you may be able to rent!), I then took the Pipe from my Floor Jack, as an extension for the leverage... It worked like a charm. Used a screwdriver to carefully pull the old seal out, try not to damage any surface!!! Just pull things from the axle (just keep them lined up in a box in your garage, maybe draw the parts in the box to be sure you put them back the same way as you found them!!!

To get the bearing out, first use some extremely fine emery cloth (paper nowadays), say 1500 grit and polish the area right in front of the bearing (it is a friction fit where it is positioned), shoot some Liquid Wrench on the Axle and then comes the actual chore.

We used a set of water-pump pliers and put the upper jaw against the inner race of the bearing, while using a Soft-Blow Hammer and tapped the Axle INBOUND whilst pushing the Bearing OUTBOUND with the pliers and it came off like butter! Kind of hard to describe...

When installing the new Bearing, clean everything up, any marks you may have scuffed on the axle, then heat the Bearing on the stove, not too hot or you take the Hardening out of the steel, just hot enough that you cannot touch it with your naked hand, pick it up with a rag, and then I used a piece of Oak-wood to tap it home, you will hear the solid clunck when it is home. Use Silicone Lube or Vaseline on the Seal and the O-rings and re-assemble. Be careful not to damage the seal as you put it in, carefully tap it with a piece of pipe, or you may use the old seal to tap it in place...

Good Luck and enjoy your Porsche 356,

Bert Leemburg ( known as Terb Grubmeel)
Calgary, Alberta
Canada

26kick · 09-25-2007, 08:55 PM

Good advice everyone.

So I'm ready to install my new rear bearing and I just read in my book the "356 technical and restoration guide" NOT to use the washer that comes with the VW seal kit. Apparently its too soft (mild steel) and the original is spring steel.

Anybody know anything about this, or if/where I can get an original style washer?

Regarding the above posts about shims and such, here are some pics of exerpts from the factory manual.

http://www.sendpix.com/albums/07092521/nukjqsva9v/

First, is my setup, how I pulled my bearing out with modified flat head 1/4 20 screws. I was able to get it started then get around back with a different puller. Enjoy.

26kick