Help with value of 61 super 90

[itsa914]

Hey guys I will start off with I know Zip, nada, zero about 356's hence my question. Went and looked at a 1961 356 B super 90 today. I was happy to see that it is a pretty solid car. It runs and drives, carbs were just rebuilt and gas tank cleaned and boiled. New fuel lines also. Floors and trunk area look and feel very solid.

Problem areas: Old red repaint over white. Guages don't work (most of the time)
Driver side rear brake seems to be dragging. Headliner shot and most side window seals are bad.

He has new head liner and some seals. Car drove ok, starts right up and idles smooth. Overall I like it. He is asking $15k, but would take my 88 944 and $6k cash. I value my 944 at $7k (68K miles and all major service done this year).

Check out the picrures and let me know what you think. Keep in mind if i would get it I would fix the rear brake issue and just drive the car while collecting parts to restore it. I am not looking for a concourse restoration, just want to keep it nice orginal and enjoy the sunny day drives. - Thanks!

[itsa914]

[onboost]

Hmmm,

Not exactly sure where that market is on these right now... seems all over the board on most 356 cars.
I'm more of a fan of 356 than I am of 944, so that being said .. I'd try to dicker on the price but if he won't budge and you really want the 356, I would not quibble over that dollar difference with the trade.

It does appear to have a nice pan on it from the pics, carpet is aftermarket, guges is probably a ground.

Car looks to have a lot of the original parts/pieces still there.. tank, sterring wheel, gauges, radio delete plate, bumpers and overiders, sunvisors, rear view mirror etc...

All I can say is check carefully for rust and prepare to forget about pwr windows and a/c!

Good Luck!

[356racing]

Check the engine number, it should be 616/7. Those are not the correct carbs for a S90 and it would be unlikely that they downgraded the carbs and more likely they just swapped the motor with a runner at some point. That being said it is still probably worth 13K if the vin matches a Super 90 and the floors and door bottoms are not falling out of it. Have fun

[drauz]

Garold, I'd have a PPI performed by a 356 expert before taking the plunge on a 46yr old. Try contacting your local 356 Registry chapter. http://www.356registry.org/Links/clubs_us.html
Good luck!

[Scoot]

It is hard to say trade since as for a daily driver your 944 has more accessories like a radio and A/C. It is also a lot easier to get parts and repairs when you need to drive it everyday.

But, a 944 is not a 356, a classic sports car with a thumbs up from lots of other drivers and pedestrians which you pass.

I would say trade if you cannot keep both cars. His price doesn't seem out of hand for a driver 356 without rust issues. The other poster stated getting a PPI from a knowledgeable 356 person. That is very good advice especially if it is to be your daily driver.

He is also correct in stating the car has Zenith carbs versus the Solex type it should have. the third piece of the case "timing cover" should have an engine number starting with a 8xxxx if euro then 8xxxxx. I would need the vin to tell you the exact range.

It also has a later silver C type regulater.

The tach looks like it might be correct for a S90. It should be a mechanical type that has the red line starting at 5500 and ending at 6000 without a turn signal blinking arrows indicator at the 6 o'clock position.

Good luck
Scoot

[jcnesq]

I bought a 60 coupe (Super) a year+ ago, good driver, known good rebuild on the motor, matching numbers, older cheap repaint (red over original Slate Grey), matching numbers, for slightly less than this guy is asking. I think I got a "good" buy. However, I watch ebay and it seems really hard to pin down current values on coupes. I think this guy is definitely in the ballpark of what its worth, and the trade might be a pretty good deal.

You need to get a good PPI from someone knowledgeable as there are lots and lots of issues that could cost you. The 356 Registry and the local related clubs are great resources and you should check them out. Go to www.356registry.org and look in the technical sections - lots and lots of articles.

I had some brake issues when the car arrived cross country (I had to ship it from Florida to L.A.), which included some oil leaks from the rear axle seals, but all new brakes, turning the drums (which hopefully have enough meat left to turn) and some other unrelated repairs, all to get it safe more roadworthy, cost me about $1,500.

BTW, I am a Porsche guy for a long time and my daily driver is a 997S, but I always wanted a 356 and bought mine in sort of hurry when I wasn't even looking.

Here's some other stuff to think about based upon my learning experience (which started at ground zero and has evolved with 14 months of obsession with my 356:

Although my car is a "10 footer" (it can look pretty nice from 10' away), the paint bugs me as it is far from perfect, and I am planning to repaint it as soon as $$$ allow. A good paint job by a guy who does a lot of 356's and is highly regarded was quoted at $15K, that would include disassembly as needed, some minor body work (probably similar to this car), and reassembly. It could cost more. I have since found a non-Porsche restoration shop, and if I do the disassembly (chrome stuff, etc.), I can probably get a good quality repaint for about $6K. Bottom line, its not cheap, and it might bug you like it bugs me until you get it done.

Interior - same issues, even though what I have is serviceable, it bugs me and I want to redo the interior at the same time I paint. New leather interior would run about $5K if done right, vinyl somewhat cheaper. Again, not a drop in the bucket.

BTW, the roof liner isn't that expensive, and with patience you could do it yourself.

Beyond that, there are lots of bits and pieces you will probably want to renew, so it can be a daunting and expensive process, but also mostly one you can do yourself over time.

MOST parts are readily available, especially if reproduction parts are OK (as opposed to a concours type restoration where original parts carry a premium). For an example, check http://www.nlaparts.com/store/, and http://www.*************/shop/shopdisplaycategories.asp?id=23&cat=356+parts. You will probably spend a lot of time on those sites making lists of all the stuff you want to buy. There are other vendors listed on the 356 Registry vendors page, but these two are some of the larger general parts vendors and have good web sites. Scroll through all this stuff and imagine how much you might be spending, depending upon how much you will want to or need to renew.

All of the above is assuming the car is basically sound, doesn't have any serious rust issues, engine doesn't need a rebuild, etc. Like me you will still find dozens and dozens and dozens of things you want to replace.

In any case, after a year+, I still love my 356, I drive it regularly to work and otherwise, and look forward to further restoration. But sometimes I feel impatient and frustrated too.

Good luck!

[jcnesq]

Guages - might be cables and electrical issues like grounds - electrical issues common but usually pretty easy to fix yourself. If the guages need to be rebuilt (as I intend to do with mine), you are looking at about $200 each (North Hollywood Speedometer).

If you can post the VIN, I can tell you the range of engine numbers (serial numbers) that would be appropriate, and if the car is in the Registry database, I can tell you what information may be listed there about the car. It's very common to swap out engines so that may very well not be an engine original to the car (which is not the end of the world - more important you have a sound engine).

If you have time, buy the books Buying, Driving and Enjoying the Porsche 356 (http://www.amazon.com/Buying-Driving-Enjoying-Porsche-Ownership/dp/096317262X/ref=sr_1_1/002-5170119-9579251?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1193467472&sr=8-1), and Porsche 356: Guide to Do-It-Yourself Restoration (http://www.amazon.com/Porsche-356-Do-Yourself-Restoration/dp/0929758234/ref=sr_1_2/002-5170119-9579251?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1193467472&sr=8-2) - before you buy the car.

After you get the car, you will want to get a copy of the factory service book, the electrical diagrams and book from Joe Leoni (see the Registry vendor page), and more stuff - add that to your budget too!

[itsa914]

Thanks every one. The vin is 114100 from what I could see on the passenger side door pillar.

[drauz]

Garold, confirm that # by checking the std factory VIN locations: driver's side forward door jamb panel (this is a narrow but tall, sometimes missing piece attached to the body next to the hinges - also has the paint code #) and the plate in the trunk attached to the chassis directly. This car's # checks out as a Reutter-built, production late-year '60 Coupe (so MY'61 when registered in the US). S-90 motors were sometimes replaced by more commonly available (& less powerful) N & S motors when they blew-up, needed rebuild or swapped to install in Speedsters for racing.

My observation is to be prepared to face additional investment starting around 100% of your initial purchase cost if you get a 356 under $20-30K & want to make it right (though one's definition of "right" is a big factor). I think I know what I'm doing with 356s and I would get an expert to help assure that I am making a clear-headed decision when purchasing more.

[teleski42]

So they likely dumped an "A" normal engine in it and with current restoration costs for interiors, rust, paint, mechanicals you could be in for an additional 20K parts and labor minimum. Oh, if you want some performance from a later model 356/912 pushrod, just add even more money. Seriously, I love these cars and have 2 356's but the 2 before these and the 2 912's told me to buy cars that are somewhat sorted unless you want a deeper investment in time, trouble and money than you ever anticipated. Best of luck and I hope you find a good one.

[mpribanic]

Good advice given so far. I would also verify the 616/7 number on the case. A friend of mine just bought a '63 super 90 a couple of months ago. It is in similar condition. He paid $13,000. It runs, drives, stops... I think he got a great deal. However, his case is not stamped 616/7 & does not have a engine number stamped under the generator stand.

If it were me...I would trade the 944 +cash for it. I think it would be a great buy for a running 356.

Looks like you have a rear wheel cylinder leak. See pic below.

Originally Posted by itsa914

[itsa914]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I know I will kick my self, but I am going to pass on it right now. I am goingto help him try and sell it so if you are interested check the ad here on Pelican and the Samba.

Maybe, someday

[teleski42]

Unless you wanted a consuming project this decision is the right one