The inside of an engine ....$20k top end valve job

[ab1752]

Originally Posted by Sunroof

I stopped by the Porsche Restoration shop located in the new Porsche of North America headquarters building complete with the Porsche Driving Experience in Atlanta several weeks ago. I inquired what the cost would be to rebuild my 1973.5T 2.4L Magnesium Block engine.

The answer was: "$35,000+

The engine was totally rebuilt back in 1995 by a well known local Porsche mechanic for a total of $9,900.00.

Crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's pretty interesting, so I would guess a full restoration would be $100 to $125k for a typical mechanical, suspension, interior and body job from these guys? I have wondered if anyone on the board has ever had a restoration completed by the porsche restoration shop?

[996AE]

California Porsche Restoration

1967 911S complete car, engine, trans, suspension, bare metal paint, new or rebuilt everything 150-200k and you donate your car.

[spyerx]

Originally Posted by Cory M

The two guys are friends, the videos have and will continue to give the shop a lot of publicity. No one is "over a barrel" here and you can bet he's not paying $20k. But there are plenty of folks who will..

I'd be interested in what BBi did with the engine first and why they didn't spot the issues. Only because when Matt was hyping the Safari car up he said something to the effect of BBi doing the engine. Then when it broke he says they just did cosmetics. Again, they are friends and I'm sure he doesn't want to shame anyone, he was probably just overstating their involvement in the early videos.

Anyway, I liked the video. Hope they get it back on the road soon and put out another.

Pretty sure BBI did nothing to the engine. I saw the car while at the shop. They simply did some basic cosmetics work, cleaned it up before it went off to Leh for the safari parts. The engine may have been out for clutch or something. But. They did not open it up or have the heads off.

I don't think he had planned to do anything to the engine, until he found the valve guides we're worn.

[Discseven]

Rough estimate on top end parts and machining labor only. (From Ollies price sheet.)

.

[ab1752]

Originally Posted by 996AE

California Porsche Restoration

1967 911S complete car, engine, trans, suspension, bare metal paint, new or rebuilt everything 150-200k and you donate your car.

Thanks for posting this.

[L Sjoberg]

Originally Posted by Ayles

He will be the first to admit he has no mechanical skills or interest in that area.

this makes me pine for the days when dudes with modified 911s were aging hippies working out of their own garage, and makes me feel more than a little old. it probably also explains why I gravitate to the YouTube channels of weirdos who do all of their own wrenching, even if they are working out of tiny and "dirty" garages and they don't toss around words like "analog" and "mechanical" every other sentence.

[shoooo32]

I thought titanium springs and hardware was a no-no for street cars (especially with tame cams on an otherwise stock Carrera). Wouldn’t this be the opposite path for longevity?

[Duc Hunter]

I had a headstud go bad in Anni (89 25th Aniverarry Carrera) in 2017. That was a full top end, though we did not do the cylinders. Heads were done, valves, guides..everything he is doing except no cylinders (if he is doing them), rings, pistons. Mine was $7k for the shop to do, all in. Guys is a ex-Brumo’s guy and very good with Porsches and to his customers. A friend had the same shop do the same thing to his engine a few years earlier, plus rings for about the same. Another shop in town who does great work would be $10k-11k, and he takes the “make it all right, and reuse nothing unless you HAVE to...” model. He woudl do a new timing chain, new tensioners, etc where we reused all of mine as they spec’d out fine.

If Matt is getting new pistons, cylinders, head work (they are doing a cam and new Ti springs, so its a safe bet there is head work too) it still seems a little high. He could go up in displacement for that price, based on what I have seen here.

As for Matt being a moron about cars, not so sure about that. He has had The Smoking Tire for a long time, seems to know a lot about cars and know a lot of good car people. He also has a big following, so any shop he deals with knows if they mess up, a lot of people will know all about it real quick. Many people in Matt’s business (internet bloggers etc) do things like this and get it almost free, because of the visibility they give the vendors. Also, the prior shop was BBI. They are another seemingly very reputable Porsche shop, so I am not sure they damaged anything. Ever heard of Project Nasty? I don’t know any of these guys, just going based on what I have seen.

I agree, it would, be nice if Matt would do a real review of what work was actually done. Head port/polish? New Cylinders? Custom ground cam based on the 964 blank? Undercuts valves? CR changed? Because it seems to me that he is paying 60%+ more than the going rate we see out here for similar work. A good shop, with a really good reputation can charge what they want, and you pay it if you want their work. It could be that simple.

There is a shop here in town who does 100 point car typ restoration of Porsches and other cars. They quotes me a min of $10k + parts to do a front suspension pan and pedal box in my Rat Rod. Other places have quoted me $1,500-$2,500 for the same work, and a friend did a front pan only in his car for $1,400 including parts. This guys work is AMAZING, and he can fab panels from bare sheets that looks factory installed to Concourse Judges at Amelia & Pebble (has had cars win at Pebble Beach), so he is def worth what he charges. My car will never see Pebble though, and I can get it driving straight, and looking good for a normal driving car (like 99% of ours are) for apparently a lot less. Lesson is.......there are people worth that much $$ for their work.....IF you need that level of work.

[joe payne]

Originally Posted by Duc Hunter

I had a headstud go bad in Anni (89 25th Aniverarry Carrera) in 2017. That was a full top end, though we did not do the cylinders. Heads were done, valves, guides..everything he is doing except no cylinders (if he is doing them), rings, pistons. Mine was $7k for the shop to do, all in. Guys is a ex-Brumo’s guy and very good with Porsches and to his customers. A friend had the same shop do the same thing to his engine a few years earlier, plus rings for about the same. Another shop in town who does great work would be $10k-11k, and he takes the “make it all right, and reuse nothing unless you HAVE to...” model. He woudl do a new timing chain, new tensioners, etc where we reused all of mine as they spec’d out fine.

If Matt is getting new pistons, cylinders, head work (they are doing a cam and new Ti springs, so its a safe bet there is head work too) it still seems a little high. He could go up in displacement for that price, based on what I have seen here.

As for Matt being a moron about cars, not so sure about that. He has had The Smoking Tire for a long time, seems to know a lot about cars and know a lot of good car people. He also has a big following, so any shop he deals with knows if they mess up, a lot of people will know all about it real quick. Many people in Matt’s business (internet bloggers etc) do things like this and get it almost free, because of the visibility they give the vendors. Also, the prior shop was BBI. They are another seemingly very reputable Porsche shop, so I am not sure they damaged anything. Ever heard of Project Nasty? I don’t know any of these guys, just going based on what I have seen.

I agree, it would, be nice if Matt would do a real review of what work was actually done. Head port/polish? New Cylinders? Custom ground cam based on the 964 blank? Undercuts valves? CR changed? Because it seems to me that he is paying 60%+ more than the going rate we see out here for similar work. A good shop, with a really good reputation can charge what they want, and you pay it if you want their work. It could be that simple.

There is a shop here in town who does 100 point car typ restoration of Porsches and other cars. They quotes me a min of $10k + parts to do a front suspension pan and pedal box in my Rat Rod. Other places have quoted me $1,500-$2,500 for the same work, and a friend did a front pan only in his car for $1,400 including parts. This guys work is AMAZING, and he can fab panels from bare sheets that looks factory installed to Concourse Judges at Amelia & Pebble (has had cars win at Pebble Beach), so he is def worth what he charges. My car will never see Pebble though, and I can get it driving straight, and looking good for a normal driving car (like 99% of ours are) for apparently a lot less. Lesson is.......there are people worth that much $$ for their work.....IF you need that level of work.

Is it possible to forward me the name and number of the guy that did your top end re-build? My 911 is here in Ocala, Florida, and would really appreciate making a connection with a mechanic I can trust to do some work on my car.

Thanks, Joe

[Matt Monson]

The guy who built and owns Project Nasty is no longer at BBI. His name is Joey and he owns a shop called E-Motion. He’s been building the Luft cars for Pat Long , including the rally one that was auctioned off for charity.

[CBA]

Marco did what must of us have probably all done at one point in life... talked a big game when we shouldn't have. The difference is most us probably did it with a small audience and he did it with a much larger one.... Secondly most of us probably all learned our lesson from doing it and figured out we need to be careful with what we say especially if we own a business. Not sure he get's it.... based on his response to people questioning him. So. Cal. is a huge Porsche market but very small in other ways and people talk. Anyways Top End is $10k-$13k... he was being "MBS" Mister Big Shot in front of the camera by throwing out $18k-$20K. Matt did a good job while being doing his interview not calling him out.

[kreeshp]

Follow up:

[7783911]

I had a top end quote from an extremely reputable shop..around 12K....depending on any surprises

i am budgeting 16K

[Jonny042]

Originally Posted by CBA

Marco did what must of us have probably all done at one point in life... talked a big game when we shouldn't have. The difference is most us probably did it with a small audience and he did it with a much larger one.... Secondly most of us probably all learned our lesson from doing it and figured out we need to be careful with what we say especially if we own a business. Not sure he get's it.... based on his response to people questioning him. So. Cal. is a huge Porsche market but very small in other ways and people talk. Anyways Top End is $10k-$13k... he was being "MBS" Mister Big Shot in front of the camera by throwing out $18k-$20K. Matt did a good job while being doing his interview not calling him out.

He explains it all in the latest video update. He seems pretty trustworthy to me, and as far as I know TLG has a pretty stellar reputation.

Sure, 18 to 20k seems high, but it very easily could have been that. Saving the pistons and cylinders saved $$$$

[db_cooper]

I went to a lot of Porsche factory training on the 3.2 back when they were new. Engine school, transmission, etc.

If I had rolled an engine around on the stand with the rods hanging out..clacking away (Porsche makes or made some very cool rod "blades" to support the rods in the case)..or kept calling the engine a "motor"..I would have been sent home to work for a domestic car shop. Same thing with the pistons dumped into a dirty parts washer. The vocabulary and technique is scary.

That said. The bald guy is not giving bad information.

[Cory M]

That heat exchanger ducting and bracket that bbi fabbed up is pretty slick. I could use one for my project car. I've been freezing my ass off in the morning, probably going to put the early heat exchangers back on and shelve the headers. Nice video and details, hopefully the next video will be of the finished car getting sideways in the dirt!

[proporsche]

I do not get it,where you get 20k for a valve job? The labour is 30-40 hours for a valve job..Plus some extra for cleaning plus parts ,gasket and so ..the max should be around 10k..really max.I do this job here in Europe for about 8k euros

Ivan

[ADDvanced]

Originally Posted by gamecock

absolutely, and it will help stoke the bidding fires at bat when they can say "20k+ in receipts for recent engine rebuild".

Never underestimate the number of folks who equate price with quality.

truth

[lvporschepilot]

Originally Posted by proporsche

I do not get it,where you get 20k for a valve job? The labour is 30-40 hours for a valve job..Plus some extra for cleaning plus parts ,gasket and so ..the max should be around 10k..really max.I do this job here in Europe for about 8k euros

Ivan

Exactly! I am dumbfounded by this entire discussion. Even $10k is a high estimate for this job.

[Artfrombama]

When you admit you know nothing about engines and you don't care to learn (especially to a Porsche tech), be prepared to take one up the a_ _.