1980 sc CIS low fuel pressure? Bucking, FD, WUR issues.

[$yncro]

Posting the progress of my 1980 sc targa 3.0
Project. I've been doing all my homework thru
the forum and others to get my car running.
And most of my search leads to incomplete outcome
or the problem had been fixed in different ways.
Thought I get a lot of help from you guys and hopefully
It will help others in the future.
I had started a thread before regarding my fuel Distributor and
many thanks to Tony in PA for helping me out.
And the knowledgeable pelicanites.

History:
Bought the car 2 yrs ago.
Sat in the barn somewhere in London Ontario for 5-7 yrs I think
Complete car with 67k miles and no rust. Just paint blemish and door dings.


Status:
Let's focus on the engine.
Cranks by hand and key to ignition.
It's was pretty Hummy when I got it lots of pine needles and cob webs
Etc. And it stunk like a barn with that old fuel smell.


Findings: replaced:
Split air box no pop off valve- new box with PO valve
9 broken lower head studs - new factory steel studs
Bad fuel pump- New FP
Clogged 2 injectors #6,4- 6 new Bosch injectors
- new O rings and sleeves
I ended up replacing Rings, gaskets, hydraulic tensioner
And bunch of little parts. I tore the engine up to the case ( didn't split)
Piston cylinders, valves looks great. Had a slight pitting on the cam so got it
reground keeping SC specs. There's more but probably irrelevant to the thread.


About me:
Im not a mechanic just a tinker and I enjoy doing it.
Shift worker so I worked on it a few hrs here and there..
So far I've put in about 250 hrs on the car since I got it.


Fast Forward to the CIS low fuel pressure: ??
Had problem with my WUR/ FD leaking after I attempted to rebuilt myself
sent it to Tony in PA and got a rebuilt FD, WUR.
Replaced fuel filter
FV tested and working
I cleaned my Dizzy and the upper vacuum is working but the lower is not
I've read that you can adjust advance timing to compensate.. ( I havnt advance it)
I adjusted my fuel mixture before the new FD thinking that was needed.
So I adjusted it again to back to baseline mixture by setting it 1/2 back after
Fuel sprays in the injectors while FP running.

So now the car "Starts! " after 4 tries in the morning. ( cold start) might be running reach too. Can't upload vid so just pic for now.
Then dies after a minute of idling at 900 rpm
Then won't start it's like it's not getting fuel.
Bucks and chugs no start it will back fired on the pop off valve too lots of white smoke. checked my new plugs. It's black . So I replaced it again with new Bosch 5





So got me a nice used $100 pressure tester ( snap on)

Pics is w/o any pressure just test fit.


Here's my Pressure numbers after I tested it.

1. Control pressure WUR plug disconnected. (Valve open 45 PSI)
2. System Pressure. ( Valve closed 45 PSI)
3. Control Fuel pressure WUR plug connected. ( 35 PSI upon FP on)
4. Pressure build ups:
1 min- 50 psi
2 min- 56 psi
3 min- 59 psi
4 min- 59 psi
Upon shutting off FP, there's no. Pressure build up. Valve open @ the tester.
Stayed at 59 psi.

After:
10 min- 24 psi
20 min- 22 psi
30 min- 22 psi
40 min- 21 psi
50 min- 20 psi
60 min- 19 psi
110 min- 19 psi

My conclusion..
1. I think I have a low pressure to begin with.?
2.Might be my FP is clogged up? - I can hear a weird
Noise by the FP like something is loose.. it's still buzzing though.
3. Clogged return line?

What do you guys think? Hope to resolve my issues
And get my car off the Jack stand and move on the other parts to work on.
Hope I didn't Waste or bore you guys. Just needs a lot of HELP.

Thanks!
Appreciate all the help.
Ogi.

Not sure if I did the right Thread tittle for others to search in the future.

[boyt911sc]

Ogi,

I don’t like the control and system pressure numbers you are getting. Something is not right. Could you post a picture of the fuel pressure gauge you have specially at the T-connection. The FD should have 70 psi. +/- (2). Could you find someone around you that has another CIS gauge?

Your main goal now is to test and verify you have a good and calibrated gauge. We can not proceed discussing your fuel pressures numbers until after the verification. Those numbers are not even close to the specs I have recorded on my logbook.

Tony

[$yncro]

Thanks for the reply Tony..
I forgot to mention, when I disconnect the fuel line from the FD
To connect the pressure tester.. there's no pressure or fuel coming
out at all. Thought that was odd. Is that normal?
I'll try to test again maybe that's why my pressure reading was low?

[$yncro]

Here's another pics of the second test.
I haven't tried starting the car.

Control pressure valve open. WUR disconnected



System pressure.



Should I try starting while the pressure gauge on?
Thanks

[timmy2]

Test the pressure tester is what Tony is asking.
Verify it is calibrated correctly.

[$yncro]

Originally Posted by timmy2

Test the pressure tester is what Tony is asking.
Verify it is calibrated correctly.

I'm on it.

[$yncro]

While waiting for another gauge.. I installed the
Gauge to my little air compressor to see if it will
Read the same pressure. Made sure the air pressure doesn't
Exceed the limit.

I let it sit for 5 min and it's holding the same pressure.

[boyt911sc]

Ogi,

Once a year, I evaluate my pressure gauges by running them in series and record the individual pressure readings. This time, I had only 4 gauges available. The 5th gauge is with Len Cummings for fuel hose replacement. This is over-kill, you just need a couple for comparison.

If you could compare your gauge readings to a known good gauge kit, it will give you confidence in your data points. I tested both the WUR and FD before shipping them to you and the discrepancies between our values are quite disturbing. They are not even close.





Borrow a good working CIS gauge and compare the readings. I thought you had the motor running well already. Keep us posted.

Tony

[$yncro]

Hi Tony.. ya I had the car running great sounded great too but just for a couple min
Max then it dies.. and won't start until I start it again the next morning..

I was super stoked as per the video I sent you.

I wasn't questioning the WUR and FD at all..never doubted you.
I was thinking of somewhere down the pressure line to the system makes
It reading low? I even checked if I plugged the right fuel lines behind the FD.
I did check my FP seems good. I'm trying to get hold of another pressure tester.
I'm working Tom and I'll try to bring my gauge to our city mechanics to compare
The gauge as well.

On the side note.. when I installed the pressure tester.. I didn't get any fuel coming out or pressure at all from the FD when I disconnect the fuel line to bleed off. Is that normal?
Thanks again.

[boyt911sc]

Ogi,

Let’s start from the beginning and work our way systematically to identify the culprit. I like you to test the fuel pump.

Flow rate measurement:

• Disconnect the fuel line going to the fuel accumulator. Place the end into a container.
• Test run the FP for 30 sec. or 1 min. and collect the delivered fuel.
• Measure the collected fuel and calculate the flow rate (liter/min.)

Minimum flow rate: 1 liter per 30 sec. or 2 liter per min.

Pressure test:
Connect the CIS pressure gauge to the main fuel line delivery coming from the FP. Utilize the same fuel line you used from the above test. You will need an adaptor to connect your CIS gauge to the fitting you disconnected from the fuel accumulator. The adaptor would be 14-mm x 1.5 (FA side) to 12-mm x 1.5 (CIS gauge side).

To determine the max. FP delivery pressure, you need to test run the FP just long enough to get a reading on the pressure gauge. A 3 sec. FP test would be enough to give you sufficient pressure. The pressure gauge should be between FP and shut-off valve.

Share your test results. PM me if you have any question. Thanks.

Tony

[$yncro]

Will do Tony.. I'm working 24 hr shift tomorrow
I'll get'r done by Wednesday.
Is this where I will be connecting to?

[timmy2]

Love the hockey stick hood prop.

[Avanti]

Ditto on making sure your gauge is calibratred, especially the one you are using. Its a vintage Snap-On and that logo font was replaced around 1980 with the current one making your gauge AT LEAST 40 years old.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by $yncro

Will do Tony.. I'm working 24 hr shift tomorrow
I'll get'r done by Wednesday.
Is this where I will be connecting to?

Ogi,

Disconnect the fuel line fitting at the fuel accumulator. The fuel line going to FA has a “bent” section that you could conveniently use to collect the delivered fuel into a container. Try to do a couple of measurements (liters/min.).

Tony

[$yncro]

Ok.. I got my Flow Rate..
I ran the FP for 15 sec and got exactly 1 lt.
I still have to source the right connection to test
My fuel pressure.


Table a little slant. But it's 1 lt.

[boyt911sc]

Ogi,

At 1 liter per 15 sec., that is 4 liter per min. The flow rate is more than the minimum requirement of 2 liter per min. The flow rate passed the test. If you could measure the max. delivery pressure of the FP by running a closed system (valve closed) at a very short duration, we would have a better picture why you were getting only 45 psi. system pressure. A good CIS FP could easily deliver 100 psi. in a closed system.

Take your time and make sure the test rig fuel hose could withstand the 100 psi. Keep us posted. Thanks.

Tony

[$yncro]

Will do Tony.. I have to work again tomorrow.
Will test it on Friday.

I having a good hunch on my fuel accumulator..
Might be good to get a new one?
Thanks again.

[$yncro]

Btw.. I ended up fitting my pressure tester gauge to the
FA, I forgot to put the valve on. When I ran the FP in very short
Time like 1 sec. the gauge spikes up pass 100 psi! That's without the
Valve.. gauge direct line to the FA.

I will do the test again and will take my time to make sure I do it right.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by $yncro

Will do Tony.. I have to work again tomorrow.
Will test it on Friday.

I having a good hunch on my fuel accumulator..
Might be good to get a new one?
Thanks again.

Ogi,

If you suspect about a bad fuel accumulator, you could test it and determine its condition. The test itself is about 2~3 sec. long and you could perform the simple test without removing the fuel accumulator from the engine bay. Do not replace CIS component/s unless confirmed defective. Parts are getting expensive now. PM me if you are interested to do the testing. There are several ways to evaluate a defective FA.

Tony

[$yncro]

K.. I tested my FA it's good!
No leaks on the bottom port.
However, the line that goes in the bottom port of the
FA flowed fuel once I jumped the fuel pump.
Is that normal?
Got a another gauge but the thread doesn't fit my tester.
I'll find another one. Might be my pressure tester gauge is at fault.
Like you guys suggested.