When is it time to sell?

[chrisbalich]

I bought my SC in December of 2017.
I've put nearly 30k miles on it since April of 2020.
I've put an absolute ton of work into it, and buckets of cash.
I've made great memories and better friends.

But I've been thinking of selling it for almost a year. I've grown tired of the never-ending build. I'm emotionally exhausted.
Last month, I stopped driving it for almost three weeks because it was just easier to drive the SUV and not have to think about it. I'm back driving it and prepping for the journey to Rennsport in two months.

Despite all of this, the urge to sell the SC and buy a more modern car that will need occasional maintenance/repair/upgrade instead of constant evolution is very very strong.

Frustrating bucket for reference.





Please discuss.

[AG81]

Been considering this myself. Specifically since I bought and (not shown so far) another 88 on BAT.
Just hate to part with my awesome build.

[Nditiz1]

I share your struggle a little, but I feel like a lot of it stems from the EFI. I love the look and how sleek it is, BUT it seems like a never ending tuning hassle. I know, I know, once it's done set it and forget it, but is it? I like your car and would just drive it like I do with mine. I take my 77 whenever and it currently has a broken head stud, but that can wait. The CIS starts and runs every time without hassle or intervention. My 83 that I brought to rr3 has an aggressive engine, gets like 12 mpg and is very cold blooded, but it runs fine on the PMOs. Maybe not perfect, but takes me places without issues. I say switch to a more simple induction OR overlook being perfect and just enjoy driving it.

PS - stop being a pussy <3

[nickelplated5s]

It's a personal decision. I've got a 67 with a 69S motor. Obviously non matching numbers. Over the 35+ years I've had it I've spent more money than it's worth. Think about Auto Cross, my suspension looks about the same as yours.

[911obgyn]

I will be buried in my car.

[gerry100]

when it's not fun anymore

[2.7RS]

I always gauge the cost benefit of smiles per miles.
I don't care what it costs as long as I'm having fun.
It seems like it's not doing it for you.

[ahh911]

No plans, mind you I shot for a car (911sc) that would represent what left the factory and never intended to make it more than that. That keeps things simple and enjoyable.

Modern cars are infinitely more complex, I imagine that my top end rebuild and all work may be equivalent to 1/8 of a pdk box replacement or a single deep dive into the engine which is probably beyond your home mechanic.

Drive a tesla s, then come running back.

25k Miles over the last 3 summers, no intention of selling.

[Otter74]

I'm reminded of a '90s BBC doc on John Coltrane in which his aunt related how he once told Miles Davis that once he got going he didn't know how to stop, and Miles said, "How about you start by taking that motherf***er out of your mouth?"

Why do you need "constant evolution"? If it's exhausting to you, just stop.

I have a slightly hot-rodded SC, including EFI. Fortunately the PO did all the work to get it tuned and dialed in, and I haven't touched it in eight years. As with any old car there's always a list of things you want to change or improve, but I love the car as it is at any given moment, so if I don't feel like messing with it yet I just dont, until I do.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by gerry100

when it's not fun anymore

This, and when you fall out of love with it.

I have had my 85 Carrera for 28 years now. I have had tons of fun in the garage making it perfect in my eyes. Every single component and feature works as designed, or often far better than when it was new. There is hardly a single spot that I have not touched.

I just drove it on a 3,500 mile road trip, and turned 191,400 miles as I pulled back into the garage. It performed like a new car.

Just going out to the garage to do anything requires me to turn my head, take a look, and smile at it. People ask to buy it regularly, and I tell them it is not for sale at any reasonable price.

So for me, I will sell it when I can no longer get in or out of it comfortably.

[ADDvanced]

Originally Posted by gerry100

when it's not fun anymore

Correct answer.

I think almost all of the not fun aspect of your car is related to the constant tuning of that EFI system. Ever considered going back to CIS? Twist key, car runs, the end. I don't know how many times you've posted you made a tweak on the laptop and it's now so much better, but it never seems like it's all the way better.

Also, you modified your car in some ways which make it worse for the street, but way more hardcore. Every mod has a pro vs con. If you're mainly street driving, change your build to be more focused on compromises.

Example: your door cards. Lighter weight? Yes. But the factory pockets are so useful, hold a bottle of water perfectly, and at the end of the day they're not going to make the car noticeably slower. I use mine every single time I drive the car.

My prediction: If you sell, and get a caymen GTS or whatever, yes, it will be faster, handle better, have AC, be more comfortable, etc. But you'll get bored and want another project car again.

[chrisbalich]

Originally Posted by AG81

Been considering this myself. Specifically since I bought and (not shown so far) another 88 on BAT.
Just hate to part with my awesome build.

I have infinite confidence that your next build will two-up your current, Steve. You have such an eye for design...and detail.
I'm a bit surprised that you're in the boat with me to be totally frank.

Originally Posted by Nditiz1

I share your struggle a little, but I feel like a lot of it stems from the EFI. I love the look and how sleek it is, BUT it seems like a never ending tuning hassle. I know, I know, once it's done set it and forget it, but is it? I like your car and would just drive it like I do with mine. I take my 77 whenever and it currently has a broken head stud, but that can wait. The CIS starts and runs every time without hassle or intervention. My 83 that I brought to rr3 has an aggressive engine, gets like 12 mpg and is very cold blooded, but it runs fine on the PMOs. Maybe not perfect, but takes me places without issues. I say switch to a more simple induction OR overlook being perfect and just enjoy driving it.

PS - stop being a pussy <3

LOL, Nick.
In all seriousness, the EFI isn't the problem. It fires and runs very well. It runs the best it has for the duration of my ownership. Snappy throttle response, well-mannered, starts well. You'd be forgiven for thinking a pro had tuned it at this point.
Chasing creaks and rattles and the endlessly cranky 915 (despite all suspension being replaced and the trans being rebuilt) combined with my aesthetic taste and and driving enjoyment being at odds are largely what have me shopping around. That and water ingress despite replacing all the seals...some twice. It's literally all the 'old car stuff' that has me at wits' end.
Can I fix them all? Sure. A little more time and another bucket of money and I can unfork all these things. But I can sell it for enough money to swap straight into a 981 S/GTS or 997.2 and have something I can dial-in without completely restoring.

Originally Posted by nickelplated5s

It's a personal decision. I've got a 67 with a 69S motor. Obviously non matching numbers. Over the 35+ years I've had it I've spent more money than it's worth. Think about Auto Cross, my suspension looks about the same as yours.

Auto-X isn't a bad idea.

Originally Posted by 911obgyn

I will be buried in my car.

I said that when I bought this car.
I just didn't anticipate it trying so hard to put me into the ground.

Originally Posted by gerry100

when it's not fun anymore

Originally Posted by 2.7RS

I always gauge the cost benefit of smiles per miles.
I don't care what it costs as long as I'm having fun.
It seems like it's not doing it for you.

This is where I'm at. I like driving it, but working on it isn't fun like it used to be. Not even close.

Originally Posted by ahh911

No plans, mind you I shot for a car (911sc) that would represent what left the factory and never intended to make it more than that. That keeps things simple and enjoyable.

Modern cars are infinitely more complex, I imagine that my top end rebuild and all work may be equivalent to 1/8 of a pdk box replacement or a single deep dive into the engine which is probably beyond your home mechanic.

Drive a tesla s, then come running back.

25k Miles over the last 3 summers, no intention of selling.

I'll never have a stock car for a toy.
Hell, my daily is a lightly-modified Audi Q5. (dual pulley upgrade, software upgrade, lowered)
So unless I buy a GT car, I'm bound to make some pretty significant changes. Hell, I'm confident I'd modify a GT car too.

[MrBonus]

I sold my '89 with similar thoughts. Owned a few other less expensive toys, didn't enjoy them as much, ended up back in a Porsche (the '71).

Now I'm thinking about selling again because I'm having less interest in constantly fixing things but think I may just let it sit for a few weeks. I need to do plugs and a few other items, and I hate doing plugs on these damn cars, and wonder why I don't just buy something new with a warranty that I can drive thoughtlessly anywhere. I briefly owned an S2000. I did basic maintenance in it and paid less for the total CAR than I have into maintenance and upgrades into the 911 and had nearly as much fun. I could also drive it without my head on a swivel and take it for a long distance drive without a second thought. I could even put a booster seat in and drive my 5 year-old around on the back roads. Of course, I sold it and kept the Porsche.

Anyway, such is life with old cars, especially expensive old cars, because once you stop enjoying the journey to "done," it's time to sell.

[FloydPink]

The feeling ebbs and flows for me. I get tired of having to work on a car (I should bleed the brakes, I should change the fan belt, I should replace the spark plugs, I should change the transmission oil, I should... the list goes on), I get tired of waking up at 6am every Saturday and Sunday to go to cars and coffee events, I become mentally drained from driving a car with no airbags and hardly any safety devices beyond seatbelts (driving a 911 is fun, but not worth dying and people drive like maniacs on mountain roads).

So I take breaks. I might not drive the car for a month or more (except for the occasional quick drive around the block to let it run for a few minutes). The enthusiasm/passion/drive will come back! You mentioned a 3 week break because the SUV is easier to drive - I agree 100%. Go even longer. Maybe consider selling if the feeling doesn't come back in 6+ months?

[chrisbalich]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

This, and when you fall out of love with it.

I have had my 85 Carrera for 28 years now. I have had tons of fun in the garage making it perfect in my eyes. Every single component and feature works as designed, or often far better than when it was new. There is hardly a single spot that I have not touched.

I just drove it on a 3,500 mile road trip, and turned 191,400 miles as I pulled back into the garage. It performed like a new car.

Just going out to the garage to do anything requires me to turn my head, take a look, and smile at it. People ask to buy it regularly, and I tell them it is not for sale at any reasonable price.

So for me, I will sell it when I can no longer get in or out of it comfortably.

This has been my plan all along.

Originally Posted by ADDvanced

Correct answer.

I think almost all of the not fun aspect of your car is related to the constant tuning of that EFI system. Ever considered going back to CIS? Twist key, car runs, the end. I don't know how many times you've posted you made a tweak on the laptop and it's now so much better, but it never seems like it's all the way better.

Also, you modified your car in some ways which make it worse for the street, but way more hardcore. Every mod has a pro vs con. If you're mainly street driving, change your build to be more focused on compromises.

Example: your door cards. Lighter weight? Yes. But the factory pockets are so useful, hold a bottle of water perfectly, and at the end of the day they're not going to make the car noticeably slower. I use mine every single time I drive the car.

My prediction: If you sell, and get a caymen GTS or whatever, yes, it will be faster, handle better, have AC, be more comfortable, etc. But you'll get bored and want another project car again.

The EFI works great. I don't have to tinker on it, I choose to. Tinkering on the EFI is still satisfying and isn't a bother at all. The tweaks I'm making are so minute that not doing them will have no appreciable consequences to anyone but me.
The hardcore nature of my car is exactly what I like. I reckon a newer car would be modified along a similar ethos, albeit probably not to the same extent.
Door pockets just get in the way and collect junk. I don't use them in either Audi, and hated them in my BMWs and VWs before my current fleet of cars. I'm most comfortable with the minimum. My Q5 is also on the chopping block as it's more luxurious than I feel I need for how I use it.
I like stripped-down, sporty cars/trucks. I want nice appointments, but not 10,000 features and baubles.
A GTS would become my project car. It just wouldn't get a full restoration. It would get upgrades and miles.

Originally Posted by MrBonus

I sold my '89 with similar thoughts. Owned a few other less expensive toys, didn't enjoy them as much, ended up back in a Porsche (the '71).

Now I'm thinking about selling again because I'm having less interest in constantly fixing things but think I may just let it sit for a few weeks. I need to do plugs, and I hate doing plugs on these damn cars, and wonder why I don't just buy something new with a warranty that I can drive thoughtlessly anywhere.

Anyway, such is life with old cars, especially expensive old cars, because once you stop enjoying the journey to "done," it's time to sell.

This is what I'm desperately keen to avoid. If I sell this car and find in a year or three that I want it back, nothing will replace it satisfactorily.

[MrBonus]

Originally Posted by chrisbalich

This is what I'm desperately keen to avoid. If I sell this car and find in a year or three that I want it back, nothing will replace it satisfactorily.

There really isn't anything like the air-cooled 911s. I replaced my '89 with a hot rod Elan and it felt like a bucket of bolts by comparison, even after doing all the big reliability upgrades, and I never felt comfortable driving it anywhere.



The S2000 was a blast and a proper analog machine, but the overall experience felt muted by comparison. The chassis was tighter but the steering couldn't touch the 911, it didn't howl like the Porsche does, and it lacked the sense of occasion when I took it out.

I've considered various Alfas but I feel I'd be similarly disappointed as I was with the Lotus.

So what does that leave (for me at least)? Maybe a Boxster Spyder, GT4, or a 996 GT3 at the same price point (+/- $15,000).

So I don't see myself selling lol. And honestly, your car looks like you've spent a lot of time/money to make it what you want. I've done the same with mine. It's hard to part with that then go about recreating it in a few years when you get the longing for another one.

[ahh911]

My advice is to get the car in a position to make it easily sellable. (no air vent fan sqeeks, reverse lights working, starts right up, gauges all work, all the little things etc..)

You may find yourself at that point in a better mental state, you'll have stabilized your changes and also know that you can sell it off, peace of mind brings comfort I guess and may also put a stake in the ground to all your modifications.

Phil

[MrBonus]

Also, kind of an obvious observation, but I get why a lot of Porsche guys swear by stock/near stock. My '89 by in large was very reliable and I never had an issue with parts. My '71 has been too, but I've had to hunt-and-peck for parts and whatnot because it's a mash-up of a '71 with a '77 motor and other aftermarket parts so sometimes getting stuff to work together requires some head-scratching and irritation. I say this as a ham-fisted mechanic whose greatest asset is Google whenever I get stumped. The shops I've employed for items above my pay grade have had little issue fixing things, but I really try to repair as many "little things" as possible at home.

[Gretz]

Lots of good thoughts here. I purchased my SC in 2018 and have been working on large or small projects regularly throughout that time. Always some frustrations but the end results have been more than worth it. For about 2 years I owned both a Corvette C7 Z06 (which I bought new) and the SC; obviously very different cars. Whenever I drove one of them I thought "I love this car - I should sell the other one!". Ultimately I sold the Z06 and kept the SC and have never regretted it. I occasionally think about purchasing a modern car but I think the chances of selling the SC are slim. I know that I would later regret the decision, and by that time the cars will be even more expensive. There are so many cars on the road that get lost in the crowd. Our cars do not.

[Joesmallwood]

I'll weigh in....

The question I have, is why do we have old cars? In my case, I'm on an ever present quest to learn things, to do things, to be frustrated with things, and to feel satisfied that I improved something at the end of the day. As you know, I want it to be an old 911, but feel "modernish".

I have done all the same things - replaced the entire suspension, rebuilt my engine (twice), added EFI (on my third generation/evolution now and have rewired it four times), stripped and redid all the interior, sound system, redoing my electric a/c "again" now, etc... I've done zero paint or cosmetic things because it's OK enough - for now.

Truth is, I love the process (like I think you do, too). And, for me, this car is now a glorious thing to drive. It handles great (to me), the engine is F'n fabulous now (still has some quirks, but so did my F150 Platinum that I sold because I hated it - boring!), it has all kinds of little things that catch my attention, make my list, but don't "need" to be done TODAY. I could drive this car across the continent tomorrow, if I wanted to.

I thought I would want a more refined car to "sport" around in so I bought a 2003 M3 for my daily after I sold my truck. I love it, but it's boring and it'll be sold in due time. I eat, sleep, breath modifications to my 911, but I also make peace that I could go months without touching it (and I have), if I choose. Just drive it..... My frustrations with it are self induced.

My a/c install is my latest puzzle. I have spent HOURS reading, studying, buying, tweaking, etc, in an effort to make it "modern". Truth is, once it's done, I'll likely never use it, but I'll feel satisfied knowing it is "right" and I learned something along the way.

I've had to "slow down" a bit with my process so I can take a little more in and also not get "obsessed" with the pace of the continuous improvement. It also allows me to think through things a little more before pulling triggers. My ECU is an example. MS3X. I've had a love hate relationship with this POS for four years, but the truth is, it's pretty capable. It's my ability to understand how to use it that's been the problem. It now runs like a modern car - starts, idles, gets decent mileage, dual afr (now that I got my head out of my a$$ and wired them correctly), idle up with a/c on, etc, etc, etc. I could throw my laptop in the trash and never use it again, if that were my style, but it isn't. I had a laptop hooked up to my F150, also.

I could be wrong, but I think the challenge of taming your car is what keeps you going! Hahaha... If it weren't for that, what else would you have to do?