Reinstalling gauges 911 3.2

[Wangan]

Hi all,

I had my speedometer repaired and tried to reinstall recently. I really struggled getting it back in with the gasket. Had to put alot of pressure on it and work it in. Even when I did get it in the rubber wasn't sitting right, so I had to take it out and reinstall it 10 15 times in attempt to get it to sit right. After a while of thinking it shouldn't be this hard, I hit the rubber gasket with some silicone spray and it slid right in, only problem I have now is I cannot for the life of me get every section around the gauge to sit flush. I've attached a photo, where you can see the gap.

Is it possible when taking it out and puting it with the force I used I potentially warped the gauge housing that's part of the dash? Not sure how thick the metal is, but it's the only thing I can think I've done.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks

[E Sully]

I had the same problem. I changed the bulbs in my friends '87 speedometer. I thought something was wrong with the original seal and bought a new one, but it was still difficult with a new seal.

[GH85Carrera]

I have never tried it with a new seal. My original seals are super easy to get a gauge in or out. Does Porsche sell new ones?

[Wangan]

I think the seal is fine. It goes in and out easily now since I've lubricated it with silicone spray. It just won't sit flat, which has me thiking the surround where the gauge goes into is warped/damaged. Not sure how much pressure it would take to distort it.

[EC900]

The original seal probably is a bit warped from age and it may have taken on the shape of the dash which could have wee bit of contour to it.
Try rotating the seal w/o gauge in it and see if you can find where it will sit flush then insert the gauge.

[Wangan]

I've tried it with the seal from the opposite gauge and gave the same issue. Not sure if it's just normal, or if metal is warped.
Anyone know how easy/hard it would be to warp the sheet metal around the gauge? Not sure how thick and durable it is.

[gamin]

Liberal lubrication of the seal and the dash opening will facilitate ease of removal and installation of these instruments.

[scarceller]

Silicone spray, perfect and safe for rubber parts to move easily.

[EC900]

The metal is really quite firm to structural spec and shouldn’t be that easy to bend out of whack.

It’s possible the metal is a bit depressed in that spot especially if that’s a picture of the shell you’re using, maybe got bumped somehow. Dash has a slight curve so a straightedge would be of any use.

Looking at the r. wiper switch, it also is a bit raised on the right side it’s quite close to a weak spot and maybe too much force was used to remove or install the speedo at one time just enough to warp the space between the gauges.
Who knows what may caused that gap on the seal, maybe been a previous owner tried to pry it out and didn’t realize how it was installed with a rubber friction gasket. They do accumulate a bunch of gunk, muck, amour-all sprays and moisture tend to seize them in place over 40 yrs.

I take it that the speedo housing is flat when laid face down on a true surface and when it was reassembled the backside lip is flush as well. Looking at it doesn’t appear its outer bezel is bent.
But being quite close to that weak spot, maybe too much force was used to remove or install the speedo in the past just enough to warp the space between the gauges.

You could just try to yank it slightly with your hand, get your fingers behind the opening a a swift pull to get it to flex back outward, nothing too over the top, like 2-3 lbs of pressure at a time, trial fit in between tweaks and see if dash has any “give”. It could be been that forcing the gauge in w/o lube caused that slight bend.

Yes it’s not a normal fit, mine is flat.
If you can’t get the gap closed you may have to sell the car.
Wait until your glove box door vinyl starts to separate and warp, or the way the ashtray sits askew….oh boy that bugs the heck out of me ! : )

[Wangan]

Thanks for the reply.
Not the shell I'm using, just a photo I found online to show the structure.

What us the weak spot you're referring too? I thought the weak spot was directly between the centre of the gauges as its not a wide section there, but it is folded over, which I guess gives it some strength.

I did put alot of pressure on the gauge without lube to try and get it to fit in, before I had the foresight to use a silicone spray. So that's the only thing I can think of that has caused it.
I know you mentioned the metal is to structural spec, but I really have no idea what that means and how strong it is. With the dash being contoured, you can't even use a straight edge to see if there's any warp, so unfortunately has me stuck.

[EC900]

The weak point might be between gauges and the cutout for the wiper toggle switch.
It’s there where I’d try to lift/pry/pull/yank/hook by easy means to get it to raise just a fraction.
When I say structural I mean it’s a part of the rigidity of the tub being it’s not just a flimsy sheet of metal with holes in it, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be dented or dinged.
The dash cutout was likely a stamped item and welded across so if this little warping wasn’t notice until you put the new speed back in.
Really a tight spot to get any sort of read on how warped that area might be, maybe a thin flat metal or plastic ruler might work to check the plane?
I agree with you that it doesn’t seem a speed and a rubber gasket would be capable of bending the opening.
There’s a tool I use for pulling laminate flooring together in tight spaces, sort of a pry tool with one side angled down for the plank the other has a large flange angled up to hit with a mallet, the force draws and snaps planks together. It might do the trick if done gently.

[Wangan]

Originally Posted by EC900

The weak point might be between gauges and the cutout for the wiper toggle switch.
It’s there where I’d try to lift/pry/pull/yank/hook by easy means to get it to raise just a fraction.
When I say structural I mean it’s a part of the rigidity of the tub being it’s not just a flimsy sheet of metal with holes in it, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be dented or dinged.
The dash cutout was likely a stamped item and welded across so if this little warping wasn’t notice until you put the new speed back in.
Really a tight spot to get any sort of read on how warped that area might be, maybe a thin flat metal or plastic ruler might work to check the plane?
I agree with you that it doesn’t seem a speed and a rubber gasket would be capable of bending the opening.
There’s a tool I use for pulling laminate flooring together in tight spaces, sort of a pry tool with one side angled down for the plank the other has a large flange angled up to hit with a mallet, the force draws and snaps planks together. It might do the trick if done gently.

Thanks for the reply.


I got a small ruler on and you can't really tell, as the area where the gauges go in is contoured to wrap around with the tach being the flatest one, so I don't think there's any way to tell visually unfortunately.

I guess the only question I have now is being it not sheet metal and a more structural steel, how likely is it to warp from me forcing the gauge into the hole?
Maybe it was already like this from the start and I just noticed, but I'm interested to know if it's something that can be warped from the pressure of forcing a gauge in, or is that being ridiculous?

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I have never tried it with a new seal. My original seals are super easy to get a gauge in or out. Does Porsche sell new ones?

Yes, the "Rubber Rings" (in Porsche-speak) are available new.

There are two styles. One for bare / painted instrument panels and one for vinyl / leather wrapped panels like most 3.2s.

I use 303 Protectant as a cleaner / conditioner and installation lube whenever I R&R gauges.

There are two ways to attempt reinstallation. A) rubber ring on gauge, connect wires, install gauge. In which case, you want to lube the outer diameter of the rubber ring to promote it gliding-in, and squarely seating, in the instrument panel. If that doesn't work, you can try B) Seat the dry rubber ring first, connect wires, lube rubber ring inner diameter and / or outside of gauge case, insert gauge into rubber ring. The assembly needs to be well lubed in this method and take care to insert the gauge squarely, or the rubber ring will push through the opening. The first method works more often than not, but I've occasionally had success with the second method for some recalcitrant rubber rings.

Some rubber rings are just too far gone (stretched out, lost shape, lost resilience, etc) to retain their shape during reinstallation (the outer lip / flange folds in on itself during reinstallation or the outer lip / flange rides over the gauge bezel). In those cases, I replace with one that has better held it's original shape.

FWIW, I typically soak them in a Dawn detergent solution for awhile, dry and then soak in 303 Protectant to revitalize them...











Bonus, John Bell gauge porn...

[EC900]

Agree, it would take a considerable amount of force to bend the dash panel, I don’t think you bent it, I can’t get mine to flex as I just removed my oil gauge, and the way the openings are punch-stamped it makes for a very strong panel. I don’t have that wiper toggle switch so that’s why I suspect it’s the weak spot prone to a bit of unevenness between the two gauges.

Curious, did you inspect the back of the speedo face ring, when a speedometer is disassembled, the bezel ring is pried off then pressed back down after servicing (see below pic). Maybe the bezel backing is askew?
I can see in your photo just a bit of where the gasket originally sat. This is referred to as a “witness mark”, maybe the back of the speedo is lumpy and lifted up that fraction of an inch, tryin looking at the back of the speedo in that section of the gap.

BTW. I had no problem fitting the gasket onto the gauge then placed into the dash rather than sliding the gauge into a pre-installed gasket which could cause the ribs on the gasket to twist and maybe temporarily distort. And you did try rotating the gasket to find a different position to see if it could lay flat anywhere else around the opening?

[Wangan]

Originally Posted by EC900

Agree, it would take a considerable amount of force to bend the dash panel, I don’t think you bent it, I can’t get mine to flex as I just removed my oil gauge, and the way the openings are punch-stamped it makes for a very strong panel. I don’t have that wiper toggle switch so that’s why I suspect it’s the weak spot prone to a bit of unevenness between the two gauges.

Curious, did you inspect the back of the speedo face ring, when a speedometer is disassembled, the bezel ring is pried off then pressed back down after servicing (see below pic). Maybe the bezel backing is askew?
I can see in your photo just a bit of where the gasket originally sat. This is referred to as a “witness mark”, maybe the back of the speedo is lumpy and lifted up that fraction of an inch, tryin looking at the back of the speedo in that section of the gap.

BTW. I had no problem fitting the gasket onto the gauge then placed into the dash rather than sliding the gauge into a pre-installed gasket which could cause the ribs on the gasket to twist and maybe temporarily distort. And you did try rotating the gasket to find a different position to see if it could lay flat anywhere else around the opening?

Thanks again for the reply.

I'll take it out an have a look again at the back. I'm pretty sure it was fine though. With what you're saying about the weak point for the wiper toggle switch. Your car should also have that a provision (weak point), it should just be covered by vinyl I'm pretty sure.

If you tried to put some pressure on it without it flexing/moving any of the metal, maybe it was just like that when it was welded in it. Did you try applying force around the location of the wiper toggle switch, or just on the thin part right in the middle of the gauges.

[EC900]

I have a 77 so I don’t have a r. wiper toggle next to speedo/tach like yours - but there is an opening that’s covered between tach/clock, and where I checked which was between gas-oil gauge and temp-pressure gauge and the opening is covered up too. No way can I move that metal with my thumb pressure like due to the way the opening is stamped with the inward rim really making the section rigid.
Any chance something behind your speedo is obstructing it to fully recess off kilter, like a wire loom, relay, etc? You did say the gasket alone fits properly?

[Wangan]

I'll pull it out and take ankther look. Never thought to check if the rest had something obstructing.