no external oil cooler -

[Hx911]

Just trying to find out if there are others who drive 911s without an external cooler.
my '74 Targa is mostly original, European Delivery of an Australian spec car.
No external oil cooler fitted - and I feel the car is getting too hot in summer, especially in stop and go traffic.
Any of you here driving without external cooler?

P.S. I am in the process to get al the the parts together to fit one, but I ma just very curious

[Flat6pac]

As I recall over the years, cars, midyears from the factory with A/C got external oil cooler.
The dealers in the US used their employees to install A/C and did nothing to install for oil cooling.
Bruce

[Eagleflyer]

I have a new-to-me '77 with AC and just the trombone style cooler. I live in Atlanta and will add an external soon.

[chrismorse]

My dad bought a 74 from the dealership that had installed the ac. He lived in Long Beach and had to have the engine rebuilt , I think, before 100K miles.
He moved to Santa Barbara and i remember riding with him to a pca event and the oil ran at 250-280, Scary. He said his shop said not to worry.
He passed and left me the 911. After fixing the "Perished" fuel return line that passed under the left hot air valve, I removed the AC, so i could run a factory thermostat and factory lines by the right rocker to a carrera fender oil cooler.
No further scary oil temps.
c

[onboost]

Originally Posted by Eagleflyer

I have a new-to-me '77 with AC and just the trombone style cooler. I live in Atlanta and will add an external soon.

A trombone style is an external cooler. I think what you mean is that you will add/change to a radiator type cooler. Unless you mean at add an auxiliary cooler which would be in the front valance and require some type of opening for flow.

There were several styles of external coolers.
An early radiator style that was on some 73S and 73RS cars
The trombone, which you have and came stock some mid-years and most SC's
The 28-tube brass cooler which were found on some Euro cars, euro Carreras and SCs
And the radiator style which was primarily found on Turbos, late SCs and 3.2 Carreras

Most of these cookers are an easy upgrade if you already have the trombone. If you don't, then you need the lines, and clamps that run down the passenger rocker. Fairly easy to find or buy the kit ($pendy) from either Pelican or Elephant racing. Either way you go this is helpful and warranted upgrade

[fanaudical]

I've got a '75 Targa with an external radiator-style cooler (Mocal) retrofit with factory external lines and thermostat. I've got a mostly-stock 2.7 (upgraded oil pump and bypass mod, some CIS improvements). I had the external t-stat fail closed and could definitely tell. An external cooler is a good idea.

[rwest]

My 1977 doesn’t have anything except the engine cooler. It gets to 210-230F on hot days. No AC.

The car was fitted with the 11 blade fan and had the thermal reactors removed before I purchased it. The engine was also rebuilt at 90,000 miles and had time certs or similar installed previous to my purchase.

[Hx911]

thanks for the replies. Depending where you live, it may be possible to run with only the engine mounted cooler.
we have 35 to 40 degree C days here, often enough. I am fitting (well, I pay someone to fit) the external cooler. Trombone may be enough, well everything is better that no cooler

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by Hx911

thanks for the replies. Depending where you live, it may be possible to run with only the engine mounted cooler.
we have 35 to 40 degree C days here, often enough. I am fitting (well, I pay someone to fit) the external cooler. Trombone may be enough, well everything is better that no cooler

Be sure you are using factory style hard lines. They add to the surface area and increase heat transfer.

[Hx911]

Originally Posted by HarryD

Be sure you are using factory style hard lines. They add to the surface area and increase heat transfer.

thanks for the heads up. We are doing factory hard lines - I have been told that the lines are an integral part of the cooling - especially if you only use the 'Trombone'

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by Hx911

thanks for the replies. Depending where you live, it may be possible to run with only the engine mounted cooler.
we have 35 to 40 degree C days here, often enough. I am fitting (well, I pay someone to fit) the external cooler. Trombone may be enough, well everything is better that no cooler

Also, if the Trombone is not enough, replacing it with a Carrera cooler is only the cost of the new cooler plus two flex lines. The Trombone itself is relatively inexpensive.

[EC900]

Hx911 :
My 2.7 came with no trombone (optional) and originally from congested San Diego AND with the thermal reactors and probably only the 5 blade fan - PLUS dealer installed ac !!!
The prev owner I believe blew up the engine under warranty period since the case was replaced.

Far forward I still have no trombone cooler. The summer Chicago noon ambient can reach 30°-35° C (85-95°F) at times and the dash gauge (if accurate) will read 200-210°F (93°- 99°C) stopped in traffic, but once moving along traffic signal to traffic signal cools engine down to reasonable 190’s.

I planned on adding at least a front trombone for peace of mind, but mechanic said normal touring/driving that an auxiliary cooler wouldn’t be necessary - so long as no autocross style or spirited driving was being done.
The key is to keep moving. In my summer highway travels, while driving I don’t see higher than gauge beyond 190° if it’s accurate, street drives in summer it’s a pita to constantly monitor the gauge is why I’d say an aux oil cooler would be a relief.

Read here, some resort to cutting a hidden hole under the bumper and/or adding one of those scoops helps to get more air flow to a trombone or a 930 style cooler. More surface cooling with oil lines installed and aux cooler is designed to help…while moving, But I believe with a 930 style cooler with a Fan too, the variance in lower temps is 10-20° F difference, enough to keep things safe and worry free.
So if I were to eventually decide do this, I’d at least add some lines, an old trombone and cut some hole under the bumper, better and more $ is go with a 930 + fan route for city driving peace of mind.



https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/RENE226.htm?pn=REN-E226

https://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/911_oil_scoop/911_oil_scoop.htm

[E Sully]

My '73 would get near the upper limit on hot summer days with no front cooler. A nice used set from an SC with the trombone keeps it in a nice range for non-track use.

[darrin]

imo, if you're going through the time and expense to install factory hard lines, etc., spend the few extra $$$ to go with the Carrera radiator-style cooler (but skip the fan) -- far more efficient/effective than the trombone

[Winter]

Originally Posted by darrin

imo, if you're going through the time and expense to install factory hard lines, etc., spend the few extra $$$ to go with the Carrera radiator-style cooler (but skip the fan) -- far more efficient/effective than the trombone

This. Do it once and do it right.

[stormin48061]

i installed one in my 74. Makes a big diff. I'd recommend the fan after going thru the exercise of installing hard lines... it's a small incremental cost to do it right. Nvr runs more than 210F any time.

[Hx911]

not intending to race or autocross my '74 Targa, these days are over.
But I still so much appreciate the feedback, the handling - I have the elephant 'adjustable spring plates fitted - helps in every roundabout, or on the freeway onramp

I am not sure actually what front cooler we are going to use - hope my favourite mechanic has something 'good' in his used stuff pile. On my Lonfon-Sidney car we had the oilcooler in the engine department, but this may be to extreme a setup for my school pickup taxi

[kclem19]

What size engine? 2.7? Any mods?

My 73 2.4 with AC, running EFI, had no problems maintaing 210 with engine cooler only (spirited driving, non track use), south Louisiana in the summer, I was quite amazed actually.

But, most efficient option and realitively simple option would be would be hard lines and carrera cooler.

Simplest would be a hard lines and trombone cooler.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[PeteKz]

I'm running a 3.2 in my car with only the engine-mounted oil cooler. On hot summer days (in the range of 100F), if I get stuck in stop and go traffic, the temp will get into the 240F range. I've seen just under 250 on a couple occasions where I had to sit and idle in heavy traffic. Otherwise, it almost always stays under 220F. I have thought about adding an external cooler many times over the years, but at this point I doubt I ever will because I don't think it is necessary for my driving. I don't do road track events, but I do AX. I'm not driving long enough in an AX to bring the temp up much--43 seconds or so.

[HarryD]

Pete,

Some thoughts on oil temperature by Steve Weiner.

Originally Posted by Steve@Rennsport

If I can add to Dan's post,....

JMHO,.......Thermostats open between 180-185 degF and I like to see these engines run between 190 & 220 degF. The 220 mark is the tiny hash mark on the gauge face directly across from "Normal" on the graphic. 248 is too damned hot (paraphrasing my buddy Bruce Anderson) and not conducive to maximum engine longevity.

Modern synthetic oils function well above 275 degF, however the propensity for oil leaks rises exponentially when the engine operates in these high temperatures. For that reason alone, I like too maintain operating temps below 200 to maintain the integrity of all the gaskets, seals, and O-rings.

Performance really begins to fall off when oil temps rise above 210 degF so thats something to consider due to high cylinder head temps and reduced volumetric efficiency.

My advice to "ramonesfreak" would be to use a 15w-40 in hot weather and at those temperatures, leaving the lighter oils for water-cooled cars. Overfilled oil systems result in high oil temps so make sure you are making any dipstick decisions at operating temps (above 190 degF).