993 engine - 1980 911

[SFR]

I have a lead on 993 engine (1997) which needs engine harness, ECU and ECU harness.
It will be going into a SC.

Looking to understand options:
A - Motronic ECU, OEM engine and ECU harness. Does anyone have this setup they want to sell?

B- Motec, custom Motec ECU harness and OEM engine harness. Where can I get wiring harness starter kit and diagram? I can do the work to the harness. Anyone have a setup they want to sell?

C- What other aftermarket setups are good options?

[PeteKz]

If you want to make use of the Variorum feature (and I think you would want it), stick with the OE ECU, etc. It has knock sensing too. It's all designed to work together. Otherwise you will have to replicate those functions in a different system.

[SFR]

Thanks Pete, that makes the most sense. Hoping to find what I need for reasonable amount…will post in parts section.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by SFR

I have a lead on 993 engine (1997) which needs engine harness, ECU and ECU harness.
It will be going into a SC.

Looking to understand options:
A - Motronic ECU, OEM engine and ECU harness. Does anyone have this setup they want to sell?

B- Motec, custom Motec ECU harness and OEM engine harness. Where can I get wiring harness starter kit and diagram? I can do the work to the harness. Anyone have a setup they want to sell?

C- What other aftermarket setups are good options?

When new that engine used an 88pin, OBD2, Motronic M5.2 setup, but since you are almost starting from scratch You can convert to the more desirable, from a tuning perspective, Motronic 2.10.1. last I heard Steve Timmons was ale to supply handmade harnesses, you might want to try contacting him at Instant -G

If you can get one of the these the oe 55 pin harness to the DME under the drivers seat has a 2 pin aux connector near the main 55 pin connector. On US cars this is wired to ground, disconnect it, ie leave it open, you are now using the RoW Non SAI code in the DME, Since this is a t/p it won't make a big difference unless you are also wiring a code light. What it does is prevent the missing SAI, you are removing it , right? from throwing a code.

All the engine harnesses are the same, w/ all the plugs and connections for either 55pin or 88 pin, I actually think that I saw one in the classifieds not too long ago

If the above falls through there are numerous Motec conversions running around successfully but the trick here is to work closely w/ someone knowledgeable and able to provide the wiring and tuning. Ninemeister in England is one, Geoffrey Ring and Jeff Gamroth are 2 more, I'm sure that there are others. Motec can run vram and valved exhaust and CoP and even knock sensing if you find the right tuner.

[chucksmith]

I agree with Bill. Give Timmons a call.

[Bill Verburg]

one last thing if you retain the stock 88 pin setup and need a new DME, avoid 1996 versions, they, are a 1 year only twin chip design that isn't even flasahable. The '97-98 version of the DME is flashable by a pro w/ the tools and skill set to do it.

The 55pin M2.10.1 have a user swappable chip design for which tuning chips are readily available.

[SFR]

Thanks Bill - I’ll reach out o to Steve tomorrow.
So I understand, can I use my 964 55 pin wiring to run a vram engine (using a 95 ECU).

If that’s the case, it would save me a lot of $$ as I have a 964 set up now.

So the 95 ECU is a 55 pin (not 88)?
What do the other 33 connections do on the 96+ motors?

Thanks

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by SFR

Thanks Bill - I’ll reach out o to Steve tomorrow.
So I understand, can I use my 964 55 pin wiring to run a vram engine (using a 95 ECU).

If that’s the case, it would save me a lot of $$ as I have a 964 set up now.

So the 95 ECU is a 55 pin (not 88)?
What do the other 33 connections do on the 96+ motors?

Thanks

possibly but you would need a chip and probably lots of rewiring, the 964 DME was pre 2.10.1, I'd need to look up the specifics and i nebver did map out the 964 pins

here's the 2.10.1 55 pin connection at the DME



and the rewiring o change a nonvram DME to vram

[Ryan_Cunningham]

For what it’s worth, I’ve been working with Steve on my 3.6 swap and he’s been very responsive.

[chucksmith]

Yes, he is helping with my swap also and knows a lot about ECU compatibility. I ended up going with a European set up to avoid some of the issues.

[SFR]

Quick question on ECU harness, are all the 88 pin harness’s the same (1996 to 1998)?
Only ask because Bill mentioned to try and stay away from 96 ECU.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by SFR

Quick question on ECU harness, are all the 88 pin harness’s the same (1996 to 1998)?
Only ask because Bill mentioned to try and stay away from 96 ECU.

yes the US '96-98 engine harness and the 88pin chassis harness from the engine to the DME are all the same

the DME itself was the only thing different

[ToySnakePMC]

Originally Posted by SFR

I have a lead on 993 engine (1997) which needs engine harness, ECU and ECU harness.
It will be going into a SC.

Looking to understand options:
C- What other aftermarket setups are good options?

Knowing what I have learned from making my own standalone EFI harness, I think you might enjoy having an aftermarket system such as MoTec, ECUMaster, or Haltech to name a few. Discover the one that can accommodate dual knock sensors if needed. Find a trusted, local tuning shop in your area that may have air-cooled experience and see if you like his preferred brand(s) of ecm's. My new system is a 3.0 conversion with ECUMaster Black, their flying harness, Hella DBW pedal, and Bosch single throttle body (for 996/997). I had never built a new harness along with fuse/ relay box before now, but it's not hard if you take it one step at a time! Good luck with whatever you do. What a nice big displacement engine to put in that SC!!
Patrick

[Ryan_Cunningham]

Originally Posted by ToySnakePMC

Who made that carpet? It's beautiful! German square weave?

[Gonbad]

MoTec and Haltech can operate the Varioram. You can also go ITB and run whatever you want.

[ToySnakePMC]

Thanks Ryan C. It is German Sq Weave from Relicate. Sonderwerks (air-cooled shop near Charlotte NC) ordered a roll and cut the patterns, stitched on the black binding, and installed it with a rear seat delete. More info here -- https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1122278-9126001675-3-0l-coupe-nc-ownership-updates-2.html

Sorry to derail this thread. Enjoy this thread as the OP may have a wonderful opportunity to build a hot rod SC with that 3.6.

[SFR]

Thanks Patrick - I’ll look into those ECM options. Unfortunately, I don’t know any good (air cooled) tuners in the Boston area. Most of the guys I deal with prefer OEM (as do I). By the way your car/setup is really nice.

What stinks about the 993 option is the cost of harness(s) and OEM ECU (reason I started looking at aftermarket). I currently have a 964 installed and may stick with it. Had an intake fire and my friend has a rebuilt 993, so doing the work to see if I want to make the change.

The easy option will be to stick with 964 and get a new intake.

I guess another option is to run the 993 long block with 964 intake, injectors and 964 ECU and reserve the option to make the change in the future if needed.
I wonder if anyone has done that?

[chucksmith]

It would be hard to say if going from a 964 to a 993 engine is worth the cost and trouble. In my case going from a 3.2 to a 993 VRAM was an easy choice. You could likely get close to the power output of a 993 with a better exhaust and a chip in your 964. The 993 is a better engine I believe, with a better valve train and exhaust , as well as the torque increase with VRAM. But a well sorted 964 is also a good platform, and in your case, it is in and running.
Having said all of that, if you enjoy the work and challenge, it would be a fun project.