911 3.2 Valve covers Nyloc nuts and washers?

[OnAir]

I have read on several threads that the valve cover Nyloc nuts and washers act as seals.
I cannot understand why but I am a newbie here so I am open to an explanation.

Wouldnt the valve cover gasket also seal around the studs from the motor block, ie no extra sealing on the studs needed?

I am an engineer by trade and if this was my design I would use standard nuts and Nordlock washers which after many years of trials is the only truly reliable locking solution. But no sealing there - then again I cannot understand why it would be needed with a 100% functioning gasket?

I am keeping an open mind so somebody explain where my logic is wrong.

[OnAir]

And just as a PS: I am in no way related to manufacturers or distrubutors of Norlock washers but after years of experience in designing oilwell downhole equipment withstanding extreme teperatures, pressure, vibration and shocks, these lock washers are the only ones that truly work.
I get it that this would not be "original" but I am not interested in using 1970s technology if I can do better today.

[john walker's workshop]

IMHO, you're correct. Shake resistant, not going to seal anything.

[Winter]

I had to educate myself on Nordlock washers. The prices I’m seeing aren’t cheap. People here generally are not reporting issues with the usual crush washers and nuts, so it may be that you are overthinking this.

BUT, it’s your car, so go for it if you feel that you’d rather use the Nordlock washers.

People do all sorts of personal modifications to these cars all the time. At least the washers are easily reversible vs. the electrical wiring challenges some owners face thanks to prior owners’ alarm and stereo installations.

[OnAir]

Hi and thanks for at least two responses so far.
Regarding washer cost I see McMaster-Carr sells a pack of 20 for about 17 bucks so not exactly bank breaking. McMaster-Carr call them Wedge Lock Washers.

HOWEVER - my main question still to be answered is - do these Valve Cover studs need to be sealed?
As I have said, I have seen other threads claiming the Nyloc nuts and crush washers on valve covers are to seal the studs from oil leaks. That just does not make any sense to me but I will listen to any feedback given either for or against the sealing theory.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by OnAir

Hi and thanks for at least two responses so far.
Regarding washer cost I see McMaster-Carr sells a pack of 20 for about 17 bucks so not exactly bank breaking. McMaster-Carr call them Wedge Lock Washers.

HOWEVER - my main question still to be answered is - do these Valve Cover studs need to be sealed?
As I have said, I have seen other threads claiming the Nyloc nuts and crush washers on valve covers are to seal the studs from oil leaks. That just does not make any sense to me but I will listen to any feedback given either for or against the sealing theory.

I think it is a bit like belts and suspenders for sealing, but honestly the nylocks aren’t coming undone and are cheap and the factory method

I’m sure I’m not the only one who has seen drips from around the stud region.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by OnAir

I have read on several threads that the valve cover Nyloc nuts and washers act as seals.
I cannot understand why but I am a newbie here so I am open to an explanation.

Wouldnt the valve cover gasket also seal around the studs from the motor block, ie no extra sealing on the studs needed?

I am an engineer by trade and if this was my design I would use standard nuts and Nordlock washers which after many years of trials is the only truly reliable locking solution. But no sealing there - then again I cannot understand why it would be needed with a 100% functioning gasket?

I am keeping an open mind so somebody explain where my logic is wrong.

On air,

Time to demonstrate and prove your idea is better than the common practice. Replace all the washers and nuts on your valve covers and install common 13-mm nuts and Nordlock washers. And we will all cheer for your success. Good luck.

Tony

[OnAir]

I guess either I would not make a good journalist or reponders all should be politicians.
(or both?)

Boiling it down to my one basic question, should the nuts and washers on the valve covers need to seal around the studs - or not?

[OnAir]

PS; mine is a 1985 911 3.2 Carrera Targa and yes with a dripping lower left valve cover...

[john walker's workshop]

Ever have them resurfaced and use wrightwood gaskets that are thick, rather than the hard, thin ones with the barely there white silicone bead?

[proporsche]

these oil leaks around valve cover as John W. said is most of the time warped cover itself .But not the later 930 updates.But the gaskets are lately just a crap.I cannot get Wrightwood graphite gasket in Europe..so I ended up making it by myself from material i have.It is a PITA work but it works well for me.
Also it is too bad these washers with rubber inside are NLA , at least i do not know of any source.

[Winter]

Originally Posted by OnAir

I see McMaster-Carr sells a pack of 20 for about 17 bucks so not exactly bank breaking. McMaster-Carr call them Wedge Lock Washers.

HOWEVER - my main question still to be answered is - do these Valve Cover studs need to be sealed?

I just saw some online for $20 each, but that’s as deep as I went.

Given the cost from McMaster-Carr and your technical background and that the gaskets *should* be enough, you should just try it and report back. It’s not as though you will experience a catastrophic leak if the experiment doesn’t work out.

EDIT- but, yeah, as mentioned above, you’ll want to make sure that your valve covers are flat. Plenty of posts on DIY procedures for checking and fixing that, and a common upgrade - as also mentioned - is to use the 930 ones.

I for one welcome your thoughts and willingness to try something new. Go for it!

[OnAir]

Thanks for your input. I have the turbo covers so should be rigid.
Working in product development for many years I know how it goes.
In the beginning new products get lets of focus. Through the production life upgrades are made and released to address the main issues. But eventually the engineers move on and the older products get left as they are - even if stuff could be better. Old completely out of date spares gets produced, some oldtimer at Porsche probably knows this but - hey he has to get with the program on the new blah blah blah blah so nothing gets done for older model support.
I would be interested in any new gaskets out there.
As I say I am a newbie I bought the car a couple of weeks ago only to find this leak. The car is otherwise fabulous though and I love driving it.

[OnAir]

Amother PS: I just hate leaving oil drips behind me everywhere I park.

Regarding originality: I dare anyone out there to say they keep using old mineral-oil engine oil, old rubber compound fan belts or even tires. 1980 design spark plugs and cables.

Why would you do that?

I am the proud owner of a 1985 911 but I do want to give it any benefits from more modern parts.

[Ian Comerford]

Originally Posted by proporsche

these oil leaks around valve cover as John W. said is most of the time warped cover itself .But not the later 930 updates.But the gaskets are lately just a crap.I cannot get Wrightwood graphite gasket in Europe..so I ended up making it by myself from material i have.It is a PITA work but it works well for me.
Also it is too bad these washers with rubber inside are NLA , at least i do not know of any source.

You can still buy Dowty washers Ivan, readily available

[OnAir]

Ok - sealing around the the studs again? Why? Can somebody please explain?
I do not buy that.

The gasket either seals (including around the studs) or it doesnt.

And a quick PS his name was Ian not Ivan

[Winter]

Originally Posted by OnAir

I would be interested in any new gaskets out there.

I use these. Some don’t like them, but they work for me, on my car. That’s good enough for me.

https://realgaskets.com/product/valve-cover-gaskets-46/

Good luck with your car!

[proporsche]

Originally Posted by OnAir

Amother PS: I just hate leaving oil drips behind me everywhere I park.

Regarding originality: I dare anyone out there to say they keep using old mineral-oil engine oil, old rubber compound fan belts or even tires. 1980 design spark plugs and cables.

Why would you do that?

I am the proud owner of a 1985 911 but I do want to give it any benefits from more modern parts.

Take a picture of your oil drip leak..it might not be from the valve cover at all.Also if you decide to fix it lets see your valve covers.If there is a oil leaking from your rocker shaft it would make you think it is the cover or gasket but it will not be the case..if your rocker shaft is seeping or leaking the oil will be here on these places on picture..

[OnAir]

Like I said I am a newbie but you are showing me a pic from the inside of the valve cover.
I have no idea - but what has that to do with the rocker shafts (whatever they are I really do not know)?
If you are talking about another source of leaks wouldnt that be external to the valve covers?

The drips always seem to form the same pattern: They always happen within minutes of parking and there always seem to be two drips close together, close to and towards the rear of the drivers side tire.

Another good Einstein quote:
Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new.

[proporsche]

Originally Posted by OnAir

Like I said I am a newbie but you are showing me a pic from the inside of the valve cover.
I have no idea - but what has that to do with the rocker shafts (whatever they are I really do not know)?
If you are talking about another source of leaks wouldnt that be external to the valve covers?

The drips always seem to form the same pattern: They always happen within minutes of parking and there always seem to be two drips close together, close to and towards the rear of the drivers side tire.

Another good Einstein quote:
Anyone who has never made a mistake has never tried anything new.

don`t worry newbie or not just take a picture so i can see it...picture of the bottom of the engine
Ivan