3.2 Smoke…

[mziggy16]

My 3.2 with 156k on the clock started to smoke recently.

https://youtu.be/eGOJauaNRr4?si=tyVuhuOq5QN0eQ8a

I think I know where this is going, but figured I’d tap into the brain trust.

Leakdown was completed about 4K miles ago and looked good. Valves were adjusted at the same time.

Mostly stock car with SW chip and M&K M32 pre-muffler and M33 muffler added within the last 1,000 miles.

Budget is “do it right, do it once”. I’m not treating this as a preservation car that needs to stay stock and/or be fully reversible to stock. I wouldn’t mind a little more power, but it doesn’t need to be a monster.

With help, I did the clutch and all the “while you’re in there” parts a few years ago, but time is super tight now (kids in sports, career at fever pitch). I want the car back on the road when the first gully washer clears the salt in March/April. Some DIY is an option but it’s time constrained.

Complicating matters, St. Louis doesn’t have a particularly reliable Indy shop scene at the moment. The tech at the Porsche dealer is fantastic, but at dealer labor rates, and they don’t really like deviating from Porsche-factory parts/specs.

I’ve searched and read the threads and am looking to ensure that I’m thinking through the correct next steps and options before proceeding.

-Mike

[EC900]

Has it being sitting for an extended period, several weeks/months?

Did you drive for +30 minutes/10 miles to get engine temperature and if so is that smoking from after a long drive or just a driveway start up? Periodic short start up and shut down won’t do much to burn off condensate.

In your video, the smoke doesn’t appear as a heavy oil billow and seems to dissipate quick.
Does it smell of engine oil or gasoline (leaky injector) ?

Could simply be condensation in either the gasoline or the oil (from sitting), not seeing much in the way of the tailpipe dripping water like on cold mornings which can exaggerate the visuals of some bad gas or contamination in the oil.

Commonly, worn valve guides will allow some oil seepage (over time from sitting) into the cylinder(s) and this sort of event usually burns off after 5 minutes or so after start up and idling, assuming the oil level was never overfilled.

For what it worth, driving for 30 minute jaunt in winter isn’t a bad idea provided not salt or brine laden puddles are on the road, it allows any oil condensation that naturally occurs in ambient temp swings to burn off.

[mziggy16]

Car is driven regularly.

Yesterday’s drive was 15 minutes each direction with a 20-30 minute stop in the middle.

It doesn’t smoke like that at cold start.

Injectors are new.

Smoke is white with maybe some blue. Does not smell of gas.

A few more videos that may help:


https://youtu.be/daD9M1vtlNI?si=7hOqXQ3bT1O1Qx-A

https://youtu.be/rj1ZfU756_k?si=hv-q0FhoAqlDUXgc

[kyngfish]

Mine at 100k miles never smoked on startup or decel. But it started smoking when I would stop at stoplights and idle. Leakdown showed percentages all in the 90s. But a leakdown doesnt show if it needs a valve job. What it DID do was burn through a quart of oil in about 400-500 miles.

It needed a top end. Now it smokes on startup. But I burn a quart of oil in maybe 1300-1500 miles.

[proporsche]

Originally Posted by mziggy16

Car is driven regularly.

Yesterday’s drive was 15 minutes each direction with a 20-30 minute stop in the middle.

It doesn’t smoke like that at cold start.

Injectors are new.

Smoke is white with maybe some blue. Does not smell of gas.

A few more videos that may help:


https://youtu.be/daD9M1vtlNI?si=7hOqXQ3bT1O1Qx-A

https://youtu.be/rj1ZfU756_k?si=hv-q0FhoAqlDUXgc

Driving 15 minutes is absolutelly not enough to get the engine warn at all.Also when was the last time you had service done? Engine is kinda noise.
Were the valve giudes ever done on this engine,? With 156K more likely that is what you need..on 87 i have done several engine valve giudes at even 30k miles( 87 had problem with them)..i`m sure your is overdue.

Ivan

[mziggy16]

Originally Posted by kyngfish

Mine at 100k miles never smoked on startup or decel. But it started smoking when I would stop at stoplights and idle. Leakdown showed percentages all in the 90s. But a leakdown doesnt show if it needs a valve job. What it DID do was burn through a quart of oil in about 400-500 miles.

It needed a top end. Now it smokes on startup. But I burn a quart of oil in maybe 1300-1500 miles.

This is very similar to my situation. Often at stoplights I’ll get the cloud of smoke blowing by,

[mziggy16]

Originally Posted by proporsche

Driving 15 minutes is absolutelly not enough to get the engine warn at all.Also when was the last time you had service done? Engine is kinda noise.
Were the valve giudes ever done on this engine,? With 156K more likely that is what you need..on 87 i have done several engine valve giudes at even 30k miles( 87 had problem with them)..i`m sure your is overdue.

Ivan

October 2023 the valves were adjusted and new injectors installed. About 4K miles ago.

Valve guides have not been done. Valve guides seems to be where this is headed.

[proporsche]

Originally Posted by mziggy16

October 2023 the valves were adjusted and new injectors installed. About 4K miles ago.

Valve guides have not been done. Valve guides seems to be where this is headed.

ok still there is a lot of noise from your valves...if it was done right?
The noise could also be the valve guides
here is how your engine should sound...
cold
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Out_PKGkYYY

and here since somebody asked warm engine after i got home from 2 hour driving
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUMbXSvZUNI

you can hear the difference

Ivan

[ant7]

If valves guides are severely worn, it can be difficult to set the correct gap on the valves, which is posibly why the engine sounds a bit more noisy than expected.
Ant.

Originally Posted by mziggy16

October 2023 the valves were adjusted and new injectors installed. About 4K miles ago.

Valve guides have not been done. Valve guides seems to be where this is headed.

[kyngfish]

Originally Posted by mziggy16

This is very similar to my situation. Often at stoplights I’ll get the cloud of smoke blowing by,

I was told that the reason for this is that at idle is when vacuum is highest and it can pull oil though the valve worn valve guides.

It’s funny because I was always under the impression that it was things like smoke on decel that would tell you. I never had any of that. Just burned a lot of oil.

[wazzz]

At high RPM when releasing the throttle, vacuum should be even higher than at idle. Reason why it smokes on decel.

[Mr. Merk]

We had a 3.2 that started smoking badly and it was due to a faulty ambient air valve which was siphoning oil from the tank. It was simply bypassed/disconnected. The ambient air valve's purpose is to prevent throttle body freezing in cold temperatures.

Additionally, you aren't THAT far from Kansas City. I'd refer you to JPWerks for any air-cooled repair, small or large.

https://www.facebook.com/p/JP-Werks-61556465606436/

[yelcab1]

Compression test.
Leak down test.
And go from there. Why guess?

[proporsche]

Originally Posted by yelcab1

Compression test.
Leak down test.
And go from there. Why guess?

for the OP it`s most likely valve guides.As i mentioned back in 1980`-90` i have done plenty with very low mileage on 1987 low as 30K miles totaly worn out guides.I his case it is for sure.I had a friend in Germany who then confirmed to us(the shop) that they did do on 1987 some metallurgical changes to the valve guides on 87 models ---he worked at the Factory.I did hear some crazy stories from him about the production i cannot mention here...

Ivan

[mziggy16]

Originally Posted by yelcab1

Compression test.
Leak down test.
And go from there. Why guess?

Yep.

FWIW, leakdown was done October 2023 / 4k miles ago. All was good at that point.

Appreciate all of the insight.

[proporsche]

Originally Posted by mziggy16

Yep.

FWIW, leakdown was done October 2023 / 4k miles ago. All was good at that point.

Appreciate all of the insight.

Mike ..here is little reading for you....
https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/348588-worn-valve-guide-need-help.html

[famoroso]

Originally Posted by Mr. Merk

We had a 3.2 that started smoking badly and it was due to a faulty ambient air valve which was siphoning oil from the tank. It was simply bypassed/disconnected. The ambient air valve's purpose is to prevent throttle body freezing in cold temperatures.

Additionally, you aren't THAT far from Kansas City. I'd refer you to JPWerks for any air-cooled repair, small or large.

https://www.facebook.com/p/JP-Werks-61556465606436/

Is there a test procedure for the Ambient Air Valve? A quick search didn't return anything.

[Mr. Merk]

Originally Posted by famoroso

Is there a test procedure for the Ambient Air Valve? A quick search didn't return anything.

I'd imagine a vacuum test. It is controlled by the vacuum line that comes off the thermo switch on the back of the throttle body.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1069904-do-i-need-ambient-air-valve.html

[PeteKz]

Originally Posted by yelcab1

Compression test.
Leak down test.
And go from there. Why guess?

Ditto this. That said, I will lay bets that the compression and/or leak down will be okay. Then you're back to valve guides. As they say in the IT biz, "it's a known issue."

[Schulisco]

The videos mainly show white smoke. In the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daD9M1vtlNI, there's also moisture visible on the ground. To me, this suggests a problem with the fuel mixture or the injection system. Check the last work done on the car. Go back step by step and check what was done last. You mentioned that the car has new injectors. It's a 3.2-liter engine. I've never seen new original Bosch injectors for years for this car, as they haven't been manufactured for years. The so-called "new" injectors currently available are cheap Chinese junk. I would reinstall the old, original injectors. You can clean them if you like by using an injection cleaner additive. Also you can find videos, instructions, and experts online about how to do this.

Thomas