Turbo tie rods?

[TeeJayHoward]

Why upgrade to turbo tie rods? What's so different about 'em?

[winders]

Originally Posted by TeeJayHoward

Why upgrade to turbo tie rods? What's so different about 'em?

https://youtu.be/557xu9vgBK4

[TeeJayHoward]

Originally Posted by winders

https://youtu.be/557xu9vgBK4

Good video. What I learned:

• Rubber-on-metal joint replaced with metal-on-metal
• It's cleaner than what's under your car now

[snbush67]

Night and day. It’s probably one of the best bang for the buck upgrades you can do. Compared to normal tie rod ends the steering and tracking of the car will be precise, smooth and responsive with increased feedback.

Think, as much as you love driving your car, this upgrade will make it even better.

[chrismorse]

I believe that the turbo tie rod ends have greater precision, less compliance, giving us more precise steering.
A few thoughts on getting this done:
1) I think it is important to counterhold the other end of the rack to unscrew the tie rod end, because the only thing preventing the axial rotation of the rack is the pinion gear. Without counterholding the other end of the rack, THE PINION takes all of the torque
2) The aluminum washer is not a "spacer" It is not optional. It is a positive stop for the axial travel of the rack. Without it, the tie rod end actually hits the rack bushing. I verified this during my rack overhaul.
3) IMHO, if overhauling the rack it is better to install a "sealed" bearing, because the bearing is likely to be in use for 50 years and it is at the bottom of the rack assembly, where water and "trash", or wear debris is going to gravitate. Backing up a bit, the original bearing, ( a 6202 bearing), is open on both sides - there are replacement bearings that are totally unsealed, like the original, or some bearings sealed on one side, or both sides, (BEST). When i looked into it, i found "open" bearings, like the original, "shielded" bearings, bearings sealed on one side and bearings, sealed on both sides, for about $10 bucks!!!
4) When instaling the tie rod ends, it is just as important to counter hold the rack to torque the tie rod ends to the rack as it is to do on disassembly, the pinion is not designed to take the tightening torque. IIRC, you can grind down the sides of a 1-1/8 open end wrench to fit on the rack for the "counterhold".
5) While trying to protect the rack and pinion on assembly, it is also important to 'counterhold the pinion, while disassembling and then torqueing the nut securing the pinion to the pinion yoke.

I've only done this once, hopefully more experienced folks will offer further advice.
chris

[PeteKz]

TeeJay: Remember that everything comes with a tradeoff. The tradeoff that comes with the turbo tie rods is more vibration and shock transmitted to your hands. And probably more wear and tear on the rack too, but I doubt anyone has quantified it. If you use your car competitively, you definitely want the turbo tie rods. If you drive mostly on the street, you might prefer a more cushioned steering. I still prefer the turbo tie rods, but you may want to drive a car with them installed before doing it to yours.

[winders]

I don't know anyone that was sorry they upgraded to turbo tie rods....I was active in the day when everyone was driving an air-cooled 911 and most of them were G-body cars....

[snbush67]

I hadn’t driven a 911 that didn’t have a turbo tie rod upgrade until recently. Then I drove a 78 SC and a 71, both had stock tie rod’s. The difference was that I could move the steering a small amount without having any impact on steering. The steering felt loose and I could move the steering in small increments without any response from the car. My 78 SC has Turbo Tie rods, I have not experienced vibrations or harsh feed back, my car has what some would call a cushy suspension. My experience is that the turbo tie rods provide smoother and immediate feedback and response far above that of the stock tie rods.

I do agree with the recommendation to drive a car with the turbo tie rod upgrade, pay attention to how responsive and predictable the steering is, and how the car reacts. Also notice how quickly the steering comes back to center when you pull the steering and then quickly let it go, like a rubber band. And see if it feels harsh to you. Go hard through some corners and notice if you have to correct more or less.

I think the only performance difference in comparison that is bigger bang for the buck, is the upgrade from Textar brake pads to the Porterfield R4-S pads.

[ramonesfreak]

Dropped my car off exactly one month ago waiting to have turbo tie rods and an entire suspension refresh done. If I ever get the car back, I’ll report back on how they feel though I’m wondering if I will notice them specifically since I’m replacing everything

[mikedsilva]

Originally Posted by winders

https://youtu.be/557xu9vgBK4

That's the guy I buy a lot of my parts from!

[MrBonus]

With turbo tie rods, uprated torsion bars, spherical bushings, and some weight reduction, my '71 is the best steering vehicle I've ever driven. I did them on my stock suspension '89 previously and you definitely noticed the difference.

They're a no brainer modification in my opinion.

[dannobee]

Turbo tie rods brings the steering up into the 20th century. Literally all new cars with rack and pinion steering have tie rods very similar to turbo tie rods.

We put on a LOT of turbo tie rods when I was at the stealership. Nobody ever came back and said, "I prefer that sloppy feeling steering that lets the car wander all over the place in a corner, can you put my old tie rods back on?"

[ramonesfreak]

interesting. my original 83 has never fell sloppy at all. not even a little bit and ive owned it 16 years. now im wondering if a prior owner put turbo tie rods on it. i doubt it but ill confirm with my mechanic if the car ever gets done

[TeeJayHoward]

Originally Posted by ramonesfreak

interesting. my original 83 has never fell sloppy at all. not even a little bit and ive owned it 16 years.

Yeah, same here. My '81's steering is just fine. It doesn't wander, there's no "uncertainty" mid-corner. "Sloppy" is not a word I'd use to describe the steering in any way, shape, or form. I've got the car up on a lift right now, so I checked - still got the non-Turbo tie rods. Good enough for the street driving I do!

[ramonesfreak]

good to know. I’m only doing the turbo tie rods because I’m doing ball joints, shocks, bushings etc. so why the hell not. But yea no way I would describe my car even with 40 year old original stuff as sloppy. If the feel of my car improves overall, which I’m sure it will because my bushings are hard as a rock, then I’ll be extremely happy since it’s already so good

[canamfan]

Same here, still have the original tie rod ends in my '82 that are pretty solid, no play, no wandering & definitily not sloppy. I've had a prvious 911 with turbo tie rods, & they're great, but honestly I'd be hard pressed to know the difference when the originals are in top shape

[MrBonus]

There's nothing wrong with the standard tie rods. You still get world class steering feel if everything is in order. The turbo tie rods just step up the crispness a notch.

[snbush67]

I have learned that many little things add up to a huge difference in driver satisfaction and performance. Someday you’ll get in a car that has had all the little things done right, and you’ll be blown away. Or maybe not. If just OK is what you’re going for then that’s not hard to achieve.

I think I understand where you’re at because until recently I really didn’t know what even a “just OK” car felt like, I didn’t have any experience driving a decent car, my car was just a pile of expensive parts that really wasn’t dialed in. I thought my car was great, little did I know. I then watched the video of Ian and Kermit and saw how everyone who experienced his car was blown away at how it performed. So, I reached out to Ian and over a year period I set up my car to ICARP specs and it performs amazing. It wasn’t expensive, I did most of the work myself or with Ian. Ian was there to dial things in to exactness, every step made, the car just kept getting better.

If you want an amazing car, then do the little things that add up. Starting with the things that give you the most bang for the buck.

I get the feeling that the folks here saying that their happy with the standard tie rods also think that shifting at 3500 is a good thing, never rev over 5000 and probably have never seen 100 mph or have even thought about doing a burn out, or a four wheel drift.

[winders]

Originally Posted by MrBonus

There's nothing wrong with the standard tie rods. You still get world class steering feel if everything is in order. The turbo tie rods just step up the crispness a notch.

There is nothing wrong with them until you replace them with Turbo tie rods.

You don't know what you don't know until you know....

[thisisgoodnews]

Hello. Read some information about the turbo tie rod upgrade, and decided to go with it, ordered the kit. Now it seems I might have been too quick..

Can anybody, just from the pic below, without further investigation, confirm, that my car ('86 3.2 Carrera) does already have this upgrade? If so, should I list them for sale, or would there bee sense to replace them anyways - I have no history from previous owner, when It has been installed, car has over 400k km of mileage.

Current view in my car:



Image from the article: