Opinions of Excellence

Andras · 11-06-2003, 10:59 AM

To those of us who think Excellence Magazine is great, I had an interesting conversation with a Porsche independent repair shop owner who claims that there is much mis-information in Excellence, that it makes their life difficult.

I didn't press him about how (except that he claims there are too many opinions by people who aren't engineers, and too many modifications of Porsches which are not "engineered"). It was, after all, a civilized conversation. He cited articles by people who make major modifications to their cars that negate the rigorously engineered nature of what Weissach has carefully done.

I wonder if it might also be that Excellence makes it difficult for him and his colleagues to act like they are the only ones who know it all in "matters Porsche".

What do you think?

IROC · IROC's Garage

Their are alot of people who swear that the stock, factory way of doing things is the best (and I'm talking shop owners). IMHO, the factory way is right, but *only given their set of requirements*. If I choose to increase my torsion bar size, for example, I am deviating from the factory's ride quality requirements, but that is a trade off that I am willing to take. It doesn't make me right and factory wrong - it's just a different set of requirements.

As for Excellence, I'm sure there is misinformation here and there, but I wouldn't consider it problematic.

Mike

Wil Ferch · 11-06-2003, 11:07 AM

Jim Pasha has often cited things that make me cringe in their ( either) inaccuracy....or the fact that he is citing his strong opinion as "fact"...

IMHO.....

Wil Ferch

Jack Olsen · 11-06-2003, 11:18 AM

For years, Porsches were very rare, and competent Porsche shops were even rarer. If you had a 911, and lived outside of a major city, you'd be lucky to find a shop that could work on your car. During this era, a Porsche guru could build his following based on the exclusivity of his knowledge. The situation was similar, in some ways, to him running a church with his own particular interpretation (from orthodox to outlandish) of Stuttgart doctrine.

Then Excellence came along, and suddenly the individual guru wasn't the end of the line, anymore. Bruce Anderson, who's the Technical Editor for Excellence, did a great deal to shake a lot of the voodoo out of the Porsche world, primarily through his book. Suddenly, a guy in rural Oklahoma could see that the way his local wrench was doing things might not be the only (or even the best) way there was.

Add the internet to the equations, especially with boards like this, and you can get dozens of useful opinions on any 911-related issue you can think of. It's like waking up one day and learning that you maybe don't have to dance with poisonous snakes in order to get in touch with your god.

I think that Porsche work used to appeal to the kind of guy who's ego would be flattered by being the end-all and be-all of Porsche knowledge with his customer. It's still the same, in a lot of ways, but now he's going to have to do it with a little more 'peer review' than was the custom in the dark ages.

There are still a lot of different ways of seeing the Porsche world available to individual shops. The factory worked out a particular set of compromises based on the particular circumstances of current technology and marketing mandates. Some shops can interepret this doctrine seriously, and some are going to do it more liberally, incorporating changing technology and new customer demands.

(For the record, I'm sure Excellence has its share of mistakes, just as any shop might. Also, I don't want to unfairly insult people who dance with poisonous snakes. If that seems to be working for you, then by all means, keep dancing.

)

RickM · RickM's Garage

I'd say that there is a certain amount of pressure to present interesting content and in quantity. Are some inaccuracies intentional? Who knows. Many times people/shops/enthusiasts have different opinions on specs, production numbers etc.

You also point out the difference in attitude between a "purist" and a "non-purist". As tastes and technologies change there will always be the good and the bad to choose from...or to abstain from.

john_colasante · 11-06-2003, 11:31 AM

I kinda agree. In most cases I think the "factory way" is the best - especially when it comes to racing.

That said, I admit once and awhile it's fun to bolt some aftermarket thingie on, stand back proudly, and burn rubber like you're some kind of rockstar hotrodder...

CHILI · CHILI's Garage

Although, I tend to use mostly "stock" stuff, I do, like many others, deviate when it comes to the years certain parts were offered. Yes, I believe that Porsche definatley knew what they were doing, but I also keep in mind that they were trying to keep costs down, too. I'm sure with an open checkbook, the engineers would have done many of the changes that we've done to our cars.

Overpaid Slacker · 11-06-2003, 01:02 PM

I really enjoy Excellence, and though I'm sure it's not 100% accurate in all aspects (All the Porsche News That's Fit to Print) I think this "mis-information" issue is due in large part
to the idiosyncracies of many of the cars they feature and the detail in which these cars are described. This wouldn't lead to "mis-information" necessarily, but a lot of snippets that are taken or relied upon out of context. If I decide, for example to build a 2.7 with certain pistons, cams, gearing and exhaust, perhaps an unorthodox set of carbs would be the "best" for my [fill in the blank application]. Having read this, some well-intentioned but uninformed enthusiast tells his wrench "I read that XYZ carbs with [this] jetting are great!" entirely w/o the context of the rest of the package of the car.

As for stock - it's a starting point; a baseline. I'm a "wild-ass gearhead" 930 owner for whom "stock" has long since vanished from the rearview. That requires that when I need a wrench, I need someone that really really understands not only stock, but the effects of different permutations and combinations of aftermarket and superstock modifications -- even if they sneer at non-stock stuff. Those types of mechanics are the guys that are the threat to the Cult of Factory Stock; they've got the basics (ie stock) down, and they've extrapolated that knowledge and experience to higher levels. Maybe it's a bit of envy on the part of the Cult of Factory Stock b/c they've never ventured outside the four corners of the shop manuals to where the dragons be.

JP

304065 · 11-06-2003, 01:41 PM

Quote:

It's like waking up one day and learning that you maybe don't have to dance with poisonous snakes in order to get in touch with your god.

Aw, F*CK!

Hetmann · 11-06-2003, 01:49 PM

We may be debating hearsay. What exactly are we talking about? If some guy builds his hotrod a certain way since when does that become "information" generalized to all p-cars? That was just one guy's solution to his perceived problem. I'm curious what misinformation has been printed because maybe I don't even realize its false. My wrench always takes the company line and uses stock parts, but he'll also go with aftermarket if that's what I want to do. Stock is safe. No one ever screwed up by putting in factory correct parts. However choosing something different is just that - a choice.

Randy Webb · 11-06-2003, 01:49 PM

LEt me speakon behalf of all the mongooses out there and explain that dancing with poisonous snakes is very important as well as being tasty. It works especially well at cold temperatures when the nasty devils a re slowed down. (The snakes, I mean, not the bad mechanics -- I know one who hates BA and who always tries to impress his customers how strange andhard it is to work on a Porsche).

And, no, it's not "mongeese."

juanbenae · juanbenae's Garage

i would enjoy the mag better if their mailing to subscribers was not so F'd up... see west coast guys thread

Mr9146 · 02:28 PM

As an occasional contributor to Excellence magazine and the son of a Porsche Mechanic, I am putting myself in a sketchy position by responding to this thread. However, seeing as how I've heard this complaint, remark, etc. before, I feel that a response is warranted.

As the son of a Porsche mechanic I have had the rare opportunity of being in and around these cars since I was born. I've seen and done more with them than people twice my age, and I've a fairly good grasp - at lease, IMHO - of the marque. From an enthusiast's perspective, having grown up reading and drooling on the pages of Excellence, I believe that Excellence does a VERY VERY good job of filling a niche that, for a long time, went unfilled. It gives a good cross section of the various models within the Porsche family and it tries to provide the readers with equal parts restoration and horsepower. I'm a Hot-rod junkie, but because of Excellence I have grown to appreciate the restoration and purist side of Porsche ownership. I've had the pleasure of working on these cars as well, and I have to say that Excellence does a good job with tech, too.

As a kid growing up reading the magazine, I extracted a lot from the pages of Excellence as I found the magazine format to be much more inviting that the dry data of Excellence Was Expected or other Porsche books. Magazines are more for entertainment, books are to be used for reference.

As a contributing writer I have to say that the information is only as good as the person putting it on paper - if the author doesn't take the time to research the material or fails to ask pertinent questions of the subject, then, of course, there are going to be blatant errors and shortcommings which manifest themselves in various ways. I am probably as guilty of this as the next guy, but I do whatever I can to produce the best quality work possible - I'm always thinking about how you, the reader, will feel when reading my story and what I, a reader, would want to know/read about. But even if the author does everything right, the potential for human error is always there as well.

The Editor In Chief, Pete Stout, makes a concerted effort to print corrections whenever blatant mistakes are made. He also does his best to filter out the opinion and leave only the facts, and as the editor he does what he can to ensure that his writers differentiate between fact and opinion.

But, the responsibilty does not lie solely with the editor ... the story is only as good as the person who writes it.

Misinformation is a harsh term - it gives the impression that the writers/editors of the magazine are intentionally giving bad info. This is not the case ... this is NEVER THE CASE. We/they do the best with what we/they've got - mistakes can, do, and will continue to happen ... we're only human.

However, if you've got something to say - fact, opinion, rants, or otherwise - please don't hesitate to write a letter to the editor ... every issue has space for you. After all, it's you guys that we're trying to please.

brianhinfl · brianhinfl's Garage

With the little Porsche knowledge I posses, I have noticed quite a bit of conflicting, or incorrect, information in the pages of Excellence. A recent example would be a Q&A answer relating to aftermarket chips. The answer stated that you can not acheive any HP gains on a NA engine, and that the chip manufacturers are misleading you. I find that interesting as I'd like you to find a car featured in the magazine over the last x years that does not include a modified ECU chip. I'd also wonder why if these chips are "known" to be useless, the magazine would accept ads from their manufacturers and retailers. I'd also be curious as to how the "expert" explains the dyno charts, showing gains on NA engines, produced by the many companies who manufacture these chips and the tuners who use them.

If someone with my small amount of knowledge is able to notice a "mistake" like this. I wonder how much other published information is mis-stated or just flat out incorrect.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the magazine and look forward to the new issue each month. However, I'd put more faith in the information provided to me by the mechanic(Assuming they are reputable) who will be performing the work. Their name goes on the finished product, and they are the ones who will stand by their work, not the contributor to a magazine.

johncj8989 · 11-07-2003, 09:57 AM

Very well put Jack and I would like to follow up your eloquent words by my well thought out feelings of Excellence.

Ummm. I like their glossy picture pages.

Randy Webb · 11-07-2003, 11:49 AM

Remember w/o this mag. we'd have to rely only on Pano....

chuckw951 · 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by john_colasante
I kinda agree. In most cases I think the "factory way" is the best - especially when it comes to racing.

Didn't the factory stop racing a couple of years ago?

I don't have complaints about the information in Excellence magazine. I suppose I have read a couple of things that were presented as fact that could be debated. At the same time I'm glad that the magazine exists, it is a great resource. My "porsche education" began in 1998 with Excellence after I happened to buy a 78 911. Didn't have a clue about Porsches. "The motor is running when you check the oil? Say what?" Over time I have built what the wife calls a library of P-car related books and magazine. Combined with resources available on the internet (this board for example) and the fellow Porsche owners I've met, I have found the information I need to get my cars on the road.

Doug Zielke · 11-07-2003, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Randy Webb
Remember w/o this mag. we'd have to rely only on Pano....

But......without Pano, what would I put in the bottom of the cat's litter box??

Randy Webb · 11-07-2003, 03:34 PM

"But......without Pano, what would I put in the bottom of the cat's litter box??"

- Motor Trend!

zotman72 · 11-07-2003, 03:43 PM

I remember back '93 when I ressurrected my MFI 72 911T in Eastern Washington area (Kennewick). The local wrench was so arrogant about his knowledge from "years of working with Porsches," that I wanted to scream. Along with my new Porsche ownership at that time, was my subscription to Excellence, Pano and the Porschephiles email list. It did not take me long (with all these alternative information sources) to realize that my wrench was full of it. My hosed up, extremely misadjusted MFI was beyond comprehension of this idiot. Excellence helped me find Bruce's book and the internet hooked me up with "local" MFI sages such as Bob Spindel over in Seattle. So Jack is quite right, the information explosion has help us Porsche owners tremendously, I am one data point. If you want high s/n ratio for misinformation in print, read European Car sometime. HTH.