Help With Buying a 911!
 

I'm new to the Porsche world - considering a 911. A friend suggested this forum to get inputs. Car I'm considering is a 1980 911 SC Euro Version. It has the 3.0L engine with 58,000 original miles (Red with Whale tail, black leather with new Pirelli P6000 Sport Veloce). Photos show it to be in mint condition. Question is - are there any known problems with this model? What would you look at. I plan on taking it to Porsche dealer for check. Any know strengths or weakness of this particular model/year? What are questions that you would ask? Are there better years/models to consider? Car for my wife - 20 anniversary. She has always loved the 911.

Thanks in advance

Problems: exploding rubber centered clutch, broken head studs, chain tensioners (most people eventually upgrade to the oil-fed Carrera style tensioners), worn tranmission synchronizers, and weak/ineffective A/C. Recommend you obtain a copy of Peter Zimmermann's "The Used 911 Story"; it's a good place to start learning about older 911's. You will definitely want a PPI (pre purchase inspection) done; a Porsche dealership may not be the best choice as the staff may not be familar with this 24 year old model. Sometimes a shop that specializes in older 911's would be better but those may be scarce in South Dakota. These cars can be very expensive if major repairs are required so take your time. Jim

Thanks, Live in South Dakota - car is in Michigan. Will get a copy of the 911 Story. Any suggestions on a more "bullet proof/reliable" engines, transmissions etc? Seems like there is no shortage of great older 911s on the market.

Sounds like if the PPI goes well, you are going to have a heck of a 911. I hope things work out.

This might help. Buyer's Guide

Good luck, and let us know what you decide.

Thank for the Buyer's Guide - just what I needed!

And go out and drive as many as posible, even if they are not the right car. You'll have a better feel for what is "normal"> And 911s don't feel "normal" at first!

Hey Boneman, Where is the car in Michigan? I live in the Detroit metro area and could suggest a good shop for a PPI, I could even take a close look at it for you as far as the body and paint go, I would consider myself an accomplished body and paint man.

Boneman,

Listen to toolman, he's knows his stuff! There are a few of us "Michigan" guys here who will help you if we can!

Thanks Art !

I own a 1980 Euro 911SC, it's a great car. I paid $10,500 for it in November, 2001. With any 911, get a good PPI. I did not, and found out later I had two broken lower dilivar head studs. I ended up replacing all 12 lower ones and installed the oil fed chain tensioner upgrade kit at the same time. I did all the work myself so I just had to pay for parts. If I had to pay to have it done it would have made purchasing the car a big mistake. As far as the 1980 911SC, it has low compression pistons, 8.6:1, so you can burn 87 octane gas. Mine pulls pretty good for a stock 188 hp engine. Does this one have the funky pasha cloth seats? Good luck.

I'll 2nd the Zimmerman book recommendation. It is the best book for looking at these cars.

There are a lot of 911's out there. Be prepared to "kiss a lot of frogs" until you find the right one. Get used to people telling you it is "perfect" car over the phone only to find out it's a dog - after you've travelled 100 miles to look at it.

Cars that need work are rarely discounted enough to make them a "deal". In the end, it will cost you more to restore/fix the $9000 "fixer upper" than buying the very nice $12,000 one in the first place. Of course nobody believes this until they prove it to themselves. :D

Euros are great when suitably discounted. They are worth less (at least the market thinks so) and should be priced accordingly. The later ones ('81 on?) can be a good deal - higher horsepower AND lower cost than a US version. Euros tend to have less options like sunroofs, AC and leather.

When these cars (Euros) were imported the odometers were essentially "rolled back" when the KPH speedometer was replaced with a MPH one so whatever the odometer reads is in addition to whatever kilometers were put on it before it was imported.

happy Porsche searching,
Chris

check the leather seats if you have tokeith recover its $1200.00
minimum.

keith epperly 87 slant nose turbo cabriolet carrera

Boneman, I also live in Michigan. I can recommend some very good shops for PPI in the Metro-Detroit area. I could also take a look at the car if it is somewhere near me. Be careful of mileage on these, as Chris has said, you never know with the euros they have all had their speedos changed, and unless you have FULL documentatio it would be hard to tell. Not to say that is bad, just slightly more mysterious.

If you need to hear it once more for a different reason:

BUY THE BEST ONE YOU FIND!

This is particularly important if the car is for your wife. You're winning right now.

Thanks to everyone! I'm originally from Michiagn - thanks to all the brothers from the motor city! All the advice I've seen is sound. The Price on the car is $10,500 - interior (from pics is in great shape). Would have to get a plane ticket and fly to see the car. What questions should I ask prior to investing in a ticket? Spedo? Euro conversion? lots to think about.

Thanks

This is so, so true.

Example: Price premium for a car with a black interior? Maybe $500. Price to rip out teddy-bear brown interior and replace with black? $1500-$2000.

Take your time, look at a lot of cars. Find the one with the exact options you want in the condition you want it in. Pay a little more for it if you have to, because trust me, you will pay it at some point.

Get familiar with the various models. SCs are great cars and have about as bullet proof as a 911 engine as you'll find, but the CIS can be a pain at times. Carreras have Motronic EFI replacing the CIS and a little more power, and are just as bullet proof as the SCs, but are a little heavier and some have had vavle guide wear problems. Later Carreras (87+) have the G50 transmission with its smoother shifting. Every year add another minor or major feature, and prices go up accordingly. Do lots of research and have fun!

Any pics of the car? Maintenance history? I had about $13,000 worth of maintenance history that dated back to 1986. The previous owners took very good care of the car. The seller did not have EPA and DOT paperwork on the car but I obtained that on my own for $16. Mine had two owners manuals, german and english. The german one had maintenance stamps from the dealer including compression test results. Sounds like a nice car.

Here is a picture of the car - Like I said $10,500 is asking. Seller has maintenance records - back about 11 years. Not sure how many owners. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1081189908.jpg

Looks pretty good in the pics. You may be able to pick it up for less than the asking price. If the paint is good and the PPI is good, it could be a pretty good deal. Make sure the PPI includes checking for broken headstuds, compression and leakdown. Has you wife ever driven a 911 before?

Nice gift!!!!

You should ask at least these questions:

does it have a pop-off valve installed (no big deal if not but you would want it done asap $50 DIY, $100-150 not DIY)
does it have carrera tensioners? more $$
does it burn oil, how much?
how does it shift?
any signs of rust? (less likely on a galvanized car like this one but rust is evil cancer on 911s and very $$$$)
since it is a gray-market car, there should be some paperwork proving it is legal to have here (though I know very little about this)
Probably the best thing is to arrange the PPI before you fly there. If there are problems, then you save the trip $.

also the known problems listed in the first reply are true but you should know that the 3.0L 911 motor, when properly maintained is a VERY reliable motor. With the low milage the rubber centered clutch might still be in there, the synchros are probably good. budget for things that need to be done. Even though the milage is low, if the bushing are original they won't be great, all new bushings will make it ride like new.

last thought. A local mechanic that knows 911s will be a huge asset in owning this car and the lack thereof will be a huge liability.

hey someone stole your right side mirror! ;)

Mine is lacking the r/s mirror too. Mine also didn't have the H4 headlights that yours doesn't have, but mine has sidemarkers yours is lacking. Many folks here have told me H4 lights are stock on the euro edition SC's, but your potential car is about the 4th euro I've seen without them. Mine came with Km speedo, I just changed it out to MPH. Antenna is also on same side as fuel door. So other than the marker lights they are similar in the Euro style.

I too was tempted by long distance shopping. Ebay and autotrader had me thinking airline ticket shopping a few times. In the end, the car was garaged 9 miles from my house. One of those "can see the forest through the trees" things. :)

Good luck and always get a PPI.

You're getting lots of great advice here. I'll reiterate the part you should not ignore, though. Get a thorough PPI from a good indpendent Porsche shop that is familiar with pre-89 cars. The most likely cause of $5,000 worth of post-purchase surprises will be snapped head studs and a worn out transaxle. Spring for the PPI that involves pulling the valve covers and checking the studs, and also find out when (if ever) the transaxle has been rebuilt, and whether any of the suspension components (bushings, shocks) have been updated. And like Jim says, verify that it's got the updated chain tensioners, and -- if AC is important to you -- what's been done in the last 20 years to make the AC work.

Keep in mind, it's a 24-year-old semi-exotic car. There's a lot that can go wrong, and it can cost a fair amount to keep it in good health.

That said, the SC is one of the most bulletproof models of the 911 line.

Wife has only driven a 911 once - friend owns a 911 Targa (84 I think). She enjoyed the way it drove - commented that it was very responsive.

Thanks for all the great advice! Thought I had done some investigation on 911 --- not! feel like I'm on a 911 crash course of doos and don'ts. Lots to learn. I appreciate all the great advice and experience. Want to do this right - provided this car checks out in PPI - is this something that you would put your wife in?? Here is another Pic of "missing" right side mirror. Thanks to all again. WOW!http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1081402425.jpg

Is it an optical illusion, or does the paint on the passenger door look to be a different shade?

just remember: pictures can lie. big time.

repeat to yourself: pictures can lie. There is no substitute for laying your hands on the car, and having one (or two) experienced people look it over closely.

Like Chris said, be prepared to kiss a lot of frogs. Also, you should check out a few cars and drive a few as they will each feel different depending on their state of repair.

Owner sent 20+ Pics inside and out - engine, enterior etc. All "looked" good from 1100 miles away. Trying to decide which car to go and "invest" in. Not a big Posrche market in South Dakota - almost a given I will have to travel to see a car. Don't want to blow lots of coin on lost lemons. This car (provided I can get candid answers to forum questions) looks like might be worth a closer look/drive - what do you think?http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1081405240.jpg

Looks like the car has been repainted. Where are the front fenders side markers? No sunroof? After market seats? Need more pictures of engine and interior.

Did SC's ever come with headlight washers? I've only seen them in Carrera's. If I had to guess I'd saw that the front fenders and bumper are not original. I would give a pass.
There are easily a 1000 people on this list that would be happy to check out a car for you if it was close to them. Don't be afraid to ask.
What do you think of Zimmerman's book?
-Chris

I think cars destined for Sweeden had headlight washers.

Hmm. There's something about that car that looks repainted. (not necessarily a bad thing). Also, do those Fuchs look like repros to anyone else? The tulips are awfully narrow near the centercap. That's a real schister move if they are, IMHO.

look at the black around the windows repainted?

My 1982 SC has factory headlight washers, must have been an opiton. I have never used them but they exist!