Not all 911s are destined for greatness... - Page 2

SandyI · 07-05-2004, 10:30 AM

Has anyone purchased a quality early 911, or even a later 911, on Ebay, and had a positive experience? I'd enjoy hearing one good story to go with the dozens of horror stories I've read.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 07-05-2004, 10:45 AM

Sandy,

I've purchased 2 on Ebay. The 84 was a great buy, the 71 surely wasn't. You have to see the car in person before your final bid, that's really the only way you'll know what you'll be getting. The 84 is a CA car, and I was there on business, so I was able to see it before purchase. It was actually better than in the Ebay ad with 7s and 8s that weren't in the ad.

It is a very high mileage car, but was very well taken care of it's entire life by one PO. Bought it at 183,000, it now has 229,000, motor has never been apart, and instructors at DE are impressed with its power (has a SteveW chip). It does burn a quart every 500 to 600, but runs strong and so far, I've only done upgrades (suspension and Alcantera/vinyl interior combo with fixedback buckets) and preventive maintenance.

here is a pic... from last fall.

azasadny · azasadny's Garage

I bought my '74 on eBay two years ago, but I was able to see the car and drive it first, since it was local. I'm very happy with the car and have no regrets!

carnut169 · carnut169's Garage

If you show up and the car is a pos then why not just walk? Just cause you won it does not mean you have to buy something that was not properly described.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 07-05-2004, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by carnut169
If you show up and the car is a pos then why not just walk? Just cause you won it does not mean you have to buy something that was not properly described.

Sean, I completely agree with you, if the car was misrepresented, you don't need to buy it, but there are too many people out there whose car while a POS to you is "perfect" to them.

Hey, just witness the opinions on this post about cutting up a car that 5 Porsche people, one a dedicated 911 bodyman, all of whom said it's not worth fixing, and I've got "assessments" from people who've seen pics of parts taken 15 feet away!

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

Shawn is right. And he has the right. If you haven't seen the car, you can't really know the extent of work involved. When nice '71 coupes bring only $6-7K, this one was a sink-hole

I'm only sorry I didn't know about the impending cutting, since I know of a car that needs the entire 'C pillar' area from the passenger side.

:-(

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

I've purchased 3 911s on eBay:

A project consisting of a '69 RSR-look, 3.0 and 915

A high-mile, straight, unrusted '72 coupe

A non-running '73 coupe

They all were $4-5K. They all turned out to be worthwhile investments.

The rule of thumb on eBay is to hold back 15-20% of value if you haven't seen the car. Pictures reveal a lot, but sometimes the owners themselves are uninformed or devious (Imagine my surprise when the "sunroof" in the '73 turned out to be hinged glass!).

Zeke · 07-05-2004, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shaun 84 Targa
Milt, where are the redundancies?

What is your assessment? Sorry, I didn't realize you've seen the car in person.

Again, I could have sold it if: I wanted to entertain everyone thinking they found a gold mine for $300 and then realizing how much work it needed and again, I just don't need a phone call saying... "hey, this thing has more rust..."

with over 30 60s to 70s old cars bought and sold in the last 20 years, it happens.

Lastly, it had to go. new company, finishing the 73...

Dont' be angry, I'm not necessarily being that critical. I didn't see the car in person (and you know that), so you have a point. Pictures are always kinder than the actual object.

I thought the longitudinals on a 911 were made up from 3 pieces: the outer rocker, the inner rocker and the sill portion of the floor pan. In fact, I know that is the case. So, when you listed inner and outer rockers AND longitudinals, to me, that is the same thing. That is unless the WHOLE floor pan needed to be replaced. Since I couldn't see any daylight through any of the pieces except at a few corners, I assumed the floors would have been kept in the event of restoration. Also, you only listed rear pans. Floors, therefore, were assumed to be good.

BTW, the hot air tube is not a continuous metal tube. It is at either end of the longitudinal, but connected by a hose in the middle door area. That soft portion has a mesh in it.

In the end, you posted that you cut up a 911 Porsche; I did the same in March. Funny, mine was totally rust free, but hit on 3 sides and repaired very poorly. The car was not worthy of a demolition derby. Yours looked better. When we post things like this, expect criticism.

I apologize for the beer remark. I think you wanted the thing out of the way more than anything else. It didn't appear to be hopeless. You had to be the final judge of that and I did not have to agree.

klaucke · 07-05-2004, 08:17 PM

What's the chance of you letting me look through some of the parts you have left over? Here in Mass 911's and their parts aren't so easy to come by.

Shaun @ Tru6 · 07-06-2004, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zeke
Dont' be angry, I'm not necessarily being that critical. I didn't see the car in person (and you know that), so you have a point. Pictures are always kinder than the actual object.

I thought the longitudinals on a 911 were made up from 3 pieces: the outer rocker, the inner rocker and the sill portion of the floor pan. In fact, I know that is the case. So, when you listed inner and outer rockers AND longitudinals, to me, that is the same thing. That is unless the WHOLE floor pan needed to be replaced. Since I couldn't see any daylight through any of the pieces except at a few corners, I assumed the floors would have been kept in the event of restoration. Also, you only listed rear pans. Floors, therefore, were assumed to be good.

BTW, the hot air tube is not a continuous metal tube. It is at either end of the longitudinal, but connected by a hose in the middle door area. That soft portion has a mesh in it.

In the end, you posted that you cut up a 911 Porsche; I did the same in March. Funny, mine was totally rust free, but hit on 3 sides and repaired very poorly. The car was not worthy of a demolition derby. Yours looked better. When we post things like this, expect criticism.

I apologize for the beer remark. I think you wanted the thing out of the way more than anything else. It didn't appear to be hopeless. You had to be the final judge of that and I did not have to agree.

Hey Milt, no offense taken, just a long day yesterday. In fact, it's so easy to see why we differ so much in reasoning why it needed to go.

My understanding is that the rear longitudinal (L and R) is all the sheet metal that holds in the torsion bar tube. If it only needed rockers, I'd have saved this car all day long. Replacing longitudinals, properly, is a big, big job and some say the car needs to be on a bench to really make it worthwhile. Restoration Design has these at $475 each side and they plainly state that they are not happy with the quality. It was the this job alone that really made the decision.

I think these healthy discussions are what makes the Pelican board great. Frustrating at times, but all you learn... it's great.

klaucke: send me pics or descriptions of what you need and I will see what I can do for you.

svandamme · svandamme's Garage

so that hot air tube, will be relatively a PITA to push throug an oil line

oh well, i'll find out eventually , it has been done , on a website
i'll ask them how dificult they found it to be, if they used the air tube or just routed the lines in the rockers

Shaun @ Tru6 · 07-06-2004, 05:03 AM

No, I think it would be relatively easy to get a set of lines through. The tube is very large and the flexible portion is still fairly stiff.

It's definitely worth trying.

Aussie · Aussie's Garage

Anything can be restored at a price.

It's when it breaks the point of being a cost effective option, you have to start to think is it worth it.

If its cheaper to just go and buy a excellent early 911, rather than spending countless hours and probably twice as much money to restore one that's to far gone, I guess you have to ask why am I doing this.

That is unless you love projects like this and money is no option.

I had to think about this when I bought my 911T. In Australia I could by an excellent one for $40,000 AU. And to restore mine was going to cost $25,000 or more plus the cost of the car which was $20,000 AU. And that was just for the body work, no engine work.

And this was it "unrestored"

MikeSid · 07-06-2004, 10:58 AM

I thought the vast majority of oil cooling for the fender mounted coolers (at least the trombone style) occured in the lines themselves (which I suppose is why Elephant makes finned lines). Wouldn't it be counterproductive to run oil lines through the hot air tubing??

svandamme · svandamme's Garage

ok . the effect of cooling lines is gone, but a front cooler with fan will take care of the heat , i'm not racing my car and it doesn't overheat as is... but if i wanna do long trips, in hot weather , then i like the reassurance that my engine will be cooled if i get stuck in a traffic jam...

but i do not want them lines hanging on the outside , looks like somebody hired a regular house plumber to do the job

svandamme · svandamme's Garage

http://www.rallystuff.com/pcar_misc.html

these guys have done it , also on pelican (dunno which nickname )

they didn't route it via the air pipe, at least not the way i hope to do it
i figure i could go in where the flapper box used to be

but that might not be possible , not sure , need to research more

maresdesign · maresdesign's Garage

I could use a small section from the front area where the drivers a-arm bolts to the pan. Seams that the PO of my 911 hit something and pushed up the mounting position by about 1/2 an inch. It is a really small section, about 10"x10". I could also circle it for you if you send me a photo. Let me know if you are interesting is selling this small section. Vince

MikeSid · 07-06-2004, 11:37 AM

I suppose if you run headers and no heat, you might as well use the existing plumbing for the oil lines. That seems sensible. But if you still use HEs and you eliminate the flapper box, wouldn't the cabin heat be on all the time? I don't know a whole lot about the heating system, but my passenger side flapper box is rusted/frozen open and on hot days, the heat is pretty uncomfortable.

svandamme · svandamme's Garage

that's the plan mike , don't wanna see oil lines
so the HE's have to go

Zeke · 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shaun 84 Targa

My understanding is that the rear longitudinal (L and R) is all the sheet metal that holds in the torsion bar tube. If it only needed rockers, I'd have saved this car all day long. Replacing longitudinals, properly, is a big, big job and some say the car needs to be on a bench to really make it worthwhile. Restoration Design has these at $475 each side and they plainly state that they are not happy with the quality. It was the this job alone that really made the decision.

OK. I understand the part you are referring to. I call that the rear suspension console (from my 914 days) and you are right, when that puppy is bad, time to look for another car.

Yes, $475 is a lot. I'm told this is one of the few parts still from factory stock and therefore expensive. I will have to do some work on those pieces in may car at the bottoms. I will make my own patches.

I guess we are done here, you were right all along and I am a silly, way-too-optomistic old fool when it comes to these cars. You ought to see what the 356 guys go through, and I'm still looking in that area. Can you say glutton for punishment?

I sent you a PM last night.