chevy 3/4 ton truck lug nuts?

[ChrisBennet]

Originally posted by Wil Ferch
Chris;

Good point....at my last DE I did notice that ( I think?) the nuts seemed loose after a few hot runs, but if you tighten them (hot) at that point....and then let them cool down to where they were tight before..you now have an "overtight" condition. If you take them off at that time, I've heard you can do some real damage.

Is that your understanding of how it gets that way ???

Wil

I'd heard that you shouldn't tighten the alloy ones when they were for that reason (over tightened). I don't know if that is a contributing factor to the lug stripping situation though.
I switched to the "nuts of steel" a long time ago. I don't recall having any problems removing them hot but that could just be my poor memory or the fact that I pretty much left my wheels alone between runs.
-Chris

[jkeyzer]

Thanks for the info guys. The ball seat style of lug nuts does not appear to be common at all (unique to Porsche/VW?).

If you compare a Porsche lug nut with the chevy, they actually look pretty similar - the radius of the ball seat is pretty large so it is approaching a linear taper. I think this is why some people can get away with it, but I am concerned like others here about wheel damage or the lugs losing torque (thrown_hammer is probably getting nervous now).

I am still curious as to whether it is common knowledge among racers that the taper difference does not matter in practice, and whether racers have dismissed this issue and are using chevy lugs anyway without incident (because the cost is appealing and they are readily available?).

The only safety issue I have heard of with the stock alloy lugs is what KTL, mikeZ and others said about not being able to see thread engagement. This is not an issue for me as I am not racing the car with an organization that requires open lugs.

My reason for switching is that my alloy lug nuts are in poor shape and I am looking for a more durable, cheaper replacement and I am willing to accept the weight penalty of steel lug nuts.

[Wil Ferch]

VW transporter type costs $1-$2/ each.

Why even fool around with substitutes ??

Wil

[Early_S_Man]

The VW Type 2 [w/ disk brakes] lug nuts weren't plated when I bought them back in the '70s.

The OEM Porsche factory lug nuts [superceded pn] I have are plated ...

From our host:

OEM Steel Lug Nut, As Needed, Each
N-020-112-1 $1.30

[911mot]

So whats the weight difference between 20 steel nuts and 20 alloy?
I always thought Porsche used alloys nuts to keep the unsprung weight down

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Do steel lug nuts ever wear out? I've got a set from a 71 that I'd like to use for my track car (84 suspension with FM10s) nearing completion.

[Wil Ferch]

Alloy lug nuts WERE used as a weight saving measure...at a time when Porsche was very serious about weight.

Today....when you consider most models weigh more than Corvettes ( even the exotic, carbon fiber CGT)...and the widespread use of massive brakes...it's more (now) a question of ..."Who cares?".

Wil

[djmcmath]

Originally posted by Wil Ferch
The factory drill is to use an anti seize not only on the threads, but also on the seating surfaces of the lug nut...but I'm sure you knew that.

Whoah, hang on, back the truck up just one more time -- I thought that we were not under any circumstances to ever use anti-sieze on lug nuts?

Thanks for the help. I feel like such a newbie...

Dan

[Wil Ferch]

Dan....you're confusing this with anti-seize on spark plug threads.

Porsche DOES say to use anti-seize on lug nuts and goes furhter to cite the round mating surfaces.

Porsche advises NOT to use anti-seize on spark plugs, but a consensus of experienced users indicate a "small" amount is still proper if you want to lessen chances of pulling threads out later.

Cheers...

Wil

[djmcmath]

I most certainly am confused. Thanks, Wil. I stand thoroughly upgraded.

Dan

[Shaun @ Tru6]

When I interned at an independent shop ages ago, we used a small bit of copper anti-seize on plugs and silver anti-seize on lug nuts, which were always hand tightened.

[ChrisBennet]

To make matters further confusing, Porsche says something different for the lug bolts on Boxters (and 996's?). Something like use it on the threads but not the cup surface or visa versa.
-Chris

[Wil Ferch]

Chris:
Could this be the reason? .....I *think* the way the bolts are made include a round surface that touches the wheel, but this is like a formed, captured washer.... and it doesn't rotate with the lug BOLT.

Could that be it ???

- - Wil

PS-Dan...no problem, hope this clears things up.....hope you didn't take my post as a bat-over-your-head. If you did, my apologies for being too aggressive. Just trying to be accurate.

[djmcmath]

Originally posted by Wil Ferch

PS-Dan...no problem, hope this clears things up.....hope you didn't take my post as a bat-over-your-head. If you did, my apologies for being too aggressive. Just trying to be accurate.

No, no, there's no problem. Thanks for slowing down to take time for us little guys, though.

[Tom F2]

Originally posted by Wil Ferch
Alloy lug nuts WERE used as a weight saving measure...at a time when Porsche was very serious about weight.

Today....when you consider most models weigh more than Corvettes ( even the exotic, carbon fiber CGT)...and the widespread use of massive brakes...it's more (now) a question of ..."Who cares?".

Wil

I thought the alloy lug nuts were used because the forged wheels don't have steel inserts where the lug nuts seat, like some cast wheels do. In other words, I thought it was more of a material compatibility issue than a weight savings issue. Despite the absence of inserts, Porsche always recommended steel lug nuts for race use.

Given the lack of a steel insert to take the uneven load of an incorrect steel lug nut on the Fuchs wheel, why would you ever use anything other than the Porsche part, which our worthy host offers at a great price?

P.S. Never, ever use never seeze on your Chevy pickup lug nuts. This I learned from experience.

[KTL]

Originally posted by Tom Frisardi

P.S. Never, ever use never seeze on your Chevy pickup lug nuts. This I learned from experience.

What happens? Overtorqued or do they loosen?

[Tom F2]

Originally posted by KTL
What happens? Overtorqued or do they loosen?

They loosened, after I torqued them to 165 ft. lbs.

[Wil Ferch]

Lubrication ( alone) will *never* cause loosening of bolts that would otherwise remain tight if unlubed.

Something else was the cause.....

Wil


EDIT:

Possible scenario:
Overtorqued to 165 ft-lbs....plastic region deformation of material, and loosening because of *this*...not if torqued to proper spec and lube was applied.

(Caveat....lubed torque is usually 60-70% of dry torque, if spec calls out "dry".)

[skipdup]

I've read this post and done other searching but can't seem to find an answer...

It appears Pelican offers OEM steel, OEM Alloy and aftermarket Alloy lug nuts.

The coating (powder coat from PO???) is flaking off, so I want to replace with new black lug nuts. Also, I have recently purchased a soft socket.

Can anyone tell me which lug nuts I need for my '79 930? The car is just a driver, but I'd like to do some DE in the future.

Thanks,
Skip

[Wil Ferch]

Mainly driver plus "some" DE?....go with Black aluminum alloy...either OEM or Aftermarket. Probably OEM is a better "known quantity" although I have had luck wih both.

Wil