When Exhausts go terribly wrong... a Tale of Woe and Missery

[euro911sc]

*sigh* so I've been building my motor over the last 2+ years and I'm getting to the final stretches. I've been very patient and waited and waited... and waited some more to pick off the right components when they came up on the classifieds or eBay. I collected some header extensions already ceramic coated... a year later I got some short headers. They were rusty, but totally usable. Then the cool twin pipe sport muffler showed up and I was on it like a good rubber undercoating (if you have ever tried to remove this stuff you will know what I mean) Followed by the right oil lines last month and I had my kick ass system ready to wake the neighbors!!

I finished my long block last week: Engine story w/ pics

Tonight, I figured I'll test fit the exhaust as I'm awaiting my oil cooler from the cleaners and snap a few sweet pics for the board. I started with the engine mount bar and the plate for the muffler straps. Cake... and all that powder coating is lookin' goooood!

Then I slap on the freshly ceramic coated headers. I think to myself, "I hope they stay shiny for a long time! Then the header extensions go on after some diggin' through my HW stash for some bolts that would work well. One side looks a little off, but I'm not thinking it will matter much. so I put the Muffler on the funny side thinking I could get more leverage to fit it up to the other side...

Things that make ya go Hrmnnnnnn.....



And



It is not even close... about 6" off... *scratch head*

Looks like my muffler is too short or the headers are too wide or a little of both.

Possibilities:

1. Sell everything and find a new hobby
2. Get some custom extensions made/make them myself
3. Sell the pipes and get some new ones and hope they fit the muffler
4. Sell pipes and muffler and buy a known working system
5. Forget the muffler and drive it that way
6. Trade the muffler for some meggaphones/supertraps
7. [insert your ideas here]

I'm about tapped out of $$ so dropping $1000-$2000 on a nice SS system probably isn't going to happen...

Best regards,

Michael

[Jeff Alton]

The problem does not appear to be with the headers or the muffler, it appears to be with the connecting pipe on the right of your pic...

Althought he pipes should be symetical, have you tried swapping the connection pipes side to side?

Cheers

[Winter]

agreed, check the pipes first. If that doesn't sort it out, then SCREAM, and then find a muffler shop that can fab a connecting section of pipe for you.

Good luck.

---

Tom

[3.2 CAB]

It looks like the connector pipes are the issue. I can't tell from the pictures if those are supposed to be symmetrical or asymmetrical. Something about the way the connector pipes appear in the pics. Are the tubes the same overall length from flange to flange? Are the two bends towards the flanges the length? Is the middle straight section the same on both pipes. I think you will have to fiddle with them and have everything pointing in the right direction. Engine turned bottom down. Good luck!! Tony.

[richde]

Huh?

The driver's side header is tweaked. Notice how the passenger side header exit is right below the valve cover and the driver's side isn't?

[911pcars]

Passenger side exhaust exit position looks pretty close to normal (left side in photo).

On closer examination, the exh. flange of the driver's side header (right side) is further away from the engine than the passenger side. That's where the problem is. It might be that the skewed header might be a prototype unit gone astray or possibly one designed to accommodate a turbo.

I notice these pieces are from different sources so there might not be any vendor recourse here.

If you install the muffler centered onto the muffler bracket with the 2 straps, you'll have a better idea of where the exhaust flanges have to be. 6" is a lot to make up, but that's "only" 3" per side.

Sherwood

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Just lose the muffler and run megaphones.

[Thomas Owen]

Bolt up the muffler on the left side and I think you will see the angles and position look more correct.

The problem appears, as already mentioned, to be the right side (or drivers side) header.

Regards -

[DanielDudley]

You need to straighten the header or Fab a new connector. Header must have come from a car that was pranged in the rear.

Now the question is, if you fab the connector, is the header going to give you clearance issues when you want to install the engine ? My assumption is no, but when I assume, it usually comes back to bite me later.

[Elombard]

I dunno might just be angle of the pictures for the right side header.

You can get another set of used cheapie headers for <$200 to get you on the road and change the exhaust to a piece of art later.???

Or new extensions would be cheap solution.

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Passenger side exhaust exit position looks pretty close to normal (left side in photo).

On closer examination, the exh. flange of the driver's side header (right side) is further away from the engine than the passenger side. That's where the problem is. It might be that the skewed header might be a prototype unit gone astray or possibly one designed to accommodate a turbo.

I notice these pieces are from different sources so there might not be any vendor recourse here.

If you install the muffler centered onto the muffler bracket with the 2 straps, you'll have a better idea of where the exhaust flanges have to be. 6" is a lot to make up, but that's "only" 3" per side.

Sherwood

Sherwood is correct. Look at the bottom photo. The camera is almost centered on the engine (actually a bit right) and then compare the centerline of the left collector (pax side) then look at the right side (drivers side). The right side collector is not even over the rocker cover, while the left side is pretty well centered with the sealing edge of the rocker cover.

As Thomas says, bolt the muffler up to the left side and it will be pretty much centered. Then you will see how far off the right side piping is.

When you can take a photo with the camera lower and facing straight back towards the headers and lined up with the engine case seam. This will really show how far out of kilter the right side (drivers side) headers are.

Joe

[billybek]

You could try to slot your flange bolt holes to allow some adjustment on the header to connecting pipe and also to the muffler.
Could you lag or bolt the right side header to an old solid core door and put a pipe inside the collector that fits snug and tweak the header back to where it needs to go?
Don't think I would try it on the engine, but it might be ok..

[David 23]

+1 the header is tweeked on the right side. The muffler will never line up to the car's centerline until the header is bent back into the proper position. It doesn't seem like it would be too much of a problem to tweek it back to the proper position.

[RarlyL8]

Those headers are WAAAAY off. Who is the manufacturer?

I would wait until the engine is back in the car. Strap the muffler in its mount, line up the tailpipes where you want them to exit, THEN cut/reweld the connection pipes to make it all line up perfect.
Attempting to bend the collector back to where it should be could damage the heads or, if the header is removed, cause the primaries to not line up. My opinion.

[Joeaksa]

Also, take a tape measure and measure from the center of the crankcase seam to the collector on the left side. Then do the same on the right side.

Bet you find 3-4 inches minimum difference and thats where your split is. This measurement should be equal on both sides, period.

[euro911sc]

The header on the drivers side is definitely tweaked. But, are we sure they are supposed to be centered on the engine? It would make sense, but this is my first set of headers so I submit to the general wisdom.

The extension pipes are symmetrical.

Even if the header was no tweaked I think the connections on the muffler would be too narrow.

I'll experiment tonight and provide more pics/measurements.

Best regards,

Michael

[Jim2]

Originally Posted by euro911sc

... a year later I got some short headers. They were rusty, but totally usable.

I've done two similar repairs to yours which were the result of rear impacts or from backing the car into something. Difficult to restore, had to cut the headers apart to realign.

Any chance the seller will still give you a refund which you can put toward some good units?

[bluesky]

Wow Michael, your project is coming together nicely...your motor is a work of art!

Hmmmm.....I'm scratching my head becasue on my 3.0L application, that muffler bolted up to my SSI's perfectly.....those 2 inlets are at the stock position.

[Gogar]

Gimme a hammer. I'll fix it!

[euro911sc]

hehehee good thoughts guys!

I have a lot of hammers already (some of them really big too) there will be no 'vendor' recourse here. Everything was private party purchase and I think those headers have been under my car for over a year anyway.

Well, after some good advice and some thinking... I pulled out the strap winches... Can I drive this way??



After the winches are loosened everything stays almost centered. there is about a 0.75" difference as best I can tell:



The whole thing is under some strong compression. That is some concern to me, but I think it will be ok. I'll just have to remember that when I go to take it all off I better bring out the straps again. Those headers did NOT want to bend. I am pretty sure that they merely moved and did not actually get into the plastic stage so they will bounce back to where they were before when it all comes apart again.

Concerns??

BUT, now I have a new problem. The gap between the muffler and the plate that the muffler straps go around is about 2"+. Do you think it will still fit in the car?:



I'm thinking of welding up a bracket to support it... somewhere... Ideas??


Best regards,

Michael