Easy 300hp for your 911

[juicersr]

Me likey




These motors rev like sportbikes.

[BoxsterGT]

You said it !!!

That is one mean mother.

Len

[BoxsterGT]

RWebb- see my posting "Vanagon DOKA needing Motivation". If the M96 goes well in the SC I will try to do one in the Vanagon.

Thats a big "IF" of course.


lin- Your method makes a lot of sense. I certainly will do this w the Vanagon.

My original plan was to run hoses thru the original heater ducts, but............no way that would work with 1.5in ID hose.

petevb's method looked really trick. Then I cut a few holes & realized the lines would run above the Coolant Expansion Tank......no way that would work either.

Good thing its an old expendable SC Targa. A few more holes won't make much difference.

The routing now is 3-4 in below the exp tank, so I am hoping it will be OK.


I expect to drop the motor and clean/paint the eng bay in the next few days.

I will post more pics soon.

Happy 4th of July everyone.

Len

[BoxsterGT]

Engine bay still a mess, so heres a couple pics up front...........





This is no longer easy or cheap, but I am learning and enjoying every bit.

Presently, I am waiting for a 934 Valence from TRE. This should allow enough room in the front for the center rad.

However, doing it as I can afford it makes for very slow progress. Anyone want to buy a 69S Targa project car?

Len

[djcdmv]

Originally Posted by onboost

not that it's really relevant at all in terms of hp/performance... But the water-cooled motors sure aren't sexy to look at.. Just a lump!

+1

[BoxsterGT]

For the most part I agree, but the W/C at the top of this page sure looks good.

Len

[BoxsterGT]

Have been stuck on getting the engine comp't stripped & repainted, so have started work on the 934 front valence from TRE.................



We will remake the sides to conform w the narrow body and move the front bumper forward about 1in to give more room for the center radiator.

Photos to come as we progress.

Cheers,

Len

[SFR]

Len - did you ever finish this project? I’m considering it and would love to see how it came out…would you do it again…

Thanks

[RNajarian]

One thing for sure. . . the price of a 996 crate motor isn’t $12,000 anymore.

[SFR]

True (cost of new 996 crate motor is not 12K), but I think having a 80’s 911 that’s water cooled is very cool (no pun intended). I know the majority will want air cooled, but having a modern engine in a vintage style 911 (to me) is pretty awesome. I’d love to do it but need more details around the transaxle…which one will mate to the 996 engine and not have to cut the hell out of the car.

[Evan Fullerton]

I’ve thought about it a bit. The best bang for the buck is a 996TT motor from the wrecker.

They bolt right up to the trans….. though you will want a g50 for the power unless you leave the turbos off.

The on engine oil tank doesn’t fit without cutting up where the shock crossmember but it would be easy enough to run the stock 911 oil tank.

[Schulisco]

Honestly - I greatly respect the effort and the work. But I don't understand it, to put a water cooled engine in a historic aircooled car. Neither a 996 engine nor a V8. And even the 996 engines are, if it's a ordinary 3,4 or 3,6l engine, crappy engines compared to a Mezger engine. I don't see any benefits. I would in contrast more understand an electric conversion these days if the original engine is scrapped or missing.

Both approaches cannot be lighter than an aircooled engine. The heavier the engine behind the rear axle is, the worsier the handling gets. Also more weight needs even more power. it's an endless spiral. And technically you also have to modify the whole car: You need to install water coolers beside the oil coolers, you have to transport the water from rear to front and back as well. Or in the electric way - you have to mount tons of accumulators. The only advantage - you can distribute them in the whole car for best weight distribution. Anyway.

After all, the engine remains a Porsche engine, which is the very least in all this.

On the other hand - I would be fine with any kind of tuning of the original engine, even (Bi-)Turbo supercharging a low compression engine, fully digital ECU, lambda control & catalysts, cams, and other cool stuff. But the aircooled boxer engine is the heart and soul of a vintage 911. Just my 2cts.

Thomas

[ant7]

My thoughts too, if I had to choose a different engine for my car, this would be the route I would go down, But hey, everyone to their own I guess, and at least its still a combustion engine and not an electric motor with a ton of batteries to lug around!

Originally Posted by hahnmgh63

A 993 motor, with even better headers and a chip has to be pushing at least 290bhp if not more, and after you remove all of the extra junk it definitely weights a lot less than a 996 motor with all of the water lines, etc... and the install is much less of a hassle and the motor is available for a fair amount less.

[SFR]

Evan, when you say - “They (996TT) bolt right up to the trans….. though you will want a g50 for the power unless you leave the turbos off.”

What transmission are you referring to (not the 915)? Is the bolt patters the same as the 915 (I get it’s not enough transmission for the motor)?

Thanks

[Charlie V]

I understand the upper limit of a good 915 transmission is 350 hp.

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by Charlie V

I understand the upper limit of a good 915 transmission is 350 hp.

Well, sort of. Remember, the factory introduced the G50 to the 3.2 range - at least partly because the 915 wasn't up to it.

Hayden (of WEVO) said years ago that anything over 300 ft/lbs below 3000 RPM was a crap shoot - that nothing you did would make a 915 reliably stand up to that.

930s with a half-decent (eg 30 year old) turbo tend to make 80% of peak torque around 3000 RPM. Higher revving (eg N/A) motor, especially in a lighter car, without big sticky tires and hard launches does improve the odds. 915 internals do look shockingly puny next to G50 parts though.

I ran a built 915 for some years with 370 wheel HP from a CIS 930. It involved many compromises, including an anti-social clutch to hold the torque and babying it/driving around the weak points. It broke enough parts (including eating 4-5 teeth off an aged 2nd gearset when I wasn't even trying) that you really never forget that you're pushing the envelope and your luck.

[Evan Fullerton]

Porsche and VW share the same 4 stud engine and trans bolting pattern from the beginning to 997 in Turbo and GT2/3 water cooled cars. Physically fitting the engine and trans into the chassis differs in difficulty depending on the combination but any drysump flat 6 will bolt to any 911 trans.

Everyone has their opinion on MAX power for a 915. I broke the main shaft on my weak 2.7L version 915 with 167whp autocrossing on a hard shift to 2nd. Later ones are stronger but the g50 box that Porsche went to in ‘87 and 108mm CVs is IMO the only good option if you plan on hard launches on good tires with more then 200ft-lb of torque……… but it’s a LOT of work and not cheap to do a g50 swap these days.

930 box is the other option. It’s lighter….. and somewhat easier to fit but only 4 gears and the same Syncro design as a 915 so they still aren’t the best shift quality.

[Charlie V]

Originally Posted by spuggy

Well, sort of. Remember, the factory introduced the G50 to the 3.2 range - at least partly because the 915 wasn't up to it.

Hayden (of WEVO) said years ago that anything over 300 ft/lbs below 3000 RPM was a crap shoot - that nothing you did would make a 915 reliably stand up to that.

930s with a half-decent (eg 30 year old) turbo tend to make 80% of peak torque around 3000 RPM. Higher revving (eg N/A) motor, especially in a lighter car, without big sticky tires and hard launches does improve the odds. 915 internals do look shockingly puny next to G50 parts though.

I ran a built 915 for some years with 370 wheel HP from a CIS 930. It involved many compromises, including an anti-social clutch to hold the torque and babying it/driving around the weak points. It broke enough parts (including eating 4-5 teeth off an aged 2nd gearset when I wasn't even trying) that you really never forget that you're pushing the envelope and your luck.

Good to know.

I only street and highway drive mine with some spirited canyon carving. I try to be "gentle" with the shifts and never abusive with launches.