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The question asked but never answered, how do I install new Targa window stops?
I've searched through posts that mention Targa window stops going back as far as 2006 and have not found an answer to this question: How does one install new window stops on the Targa 1/4 window frames?
I've drilled out the old copper rivets that held the window stop to the vertical section of the frame and I'm ready to reinstall the new stops and rivets. What method should I use to pound the rivet flat without damaging the window frame? Any tips on good techniques, tool recommendations, or pictures of the deed would be appreciated. Thanks in advance! J |
You need to remove the complete window frame from the car. Take it apart to separate the vent window part. Pull the seals from the vent frame. Make sure you are using the copper rivets. Carefully slide a counter to the rivet and flatten the rivet. While your in there replace the vent window rubber with a new one as for sure it will whistle when you've got it all together.
This is not a difficult job , just tedious and delicate as it is a trick to make sure the rivets are tight. Do not attempt with the frame in the car!! There are several tiny screws that may need to have wd40 for a while to loosen. |
Hi RS Targa, thanks for the description. I've already taken out both windows, taken them completely apart and had the pieces chromed. Now I'm ready for the window stops.
Can you describe what the "counter" looks like? Is it a specific type of tool for flattening copper rivets? How do you support the back of the frame to prevent damage? |
I did this a couple years ago, I wish I had taken some pictures. I ended up with a Rube Goldberg contraption using strange bits and pieces of stuff from around my garage. I save everything so I had lots of strange stuff to choose from.
The reason I'm posting though, there is a stop on the window mechanism inside the door that must be adjusted correctly or the piece you are replacing will be destroyed within a year or two if the window is allowed to rise too high. |
I learned about the door adjustment the hard way when I adjusted in the wrong direction and the window tore right through one of my old stops. Thanks for the warning though!
Did you use heat on the rivet when you pounded it flat or is it malleable enough when it is cold? |
If i remember correctly you need to find a piece of steel that fits in the door channel and pound the rivets from the other side. I did not use heat. I probably used a flat tip punch on the rivet so I didn't BFH the window frame.
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find a piece of flat heavy steel that fits in the channel and allows you to rest it on a support (top of a vise). Then take a broad round punch larger than the rivet but narrow enough to fit in the channel. The idea is to concentrate the force on the rivet without transferring any to the unsupported part of the frame. I too wish I had taken pictures. The copper rivets are fairly soft but use a fairly heavy hammer on the punch it's more efficient than trying to hit hard with a light hammer.
One trick to protect the stops is to only roll up the window with the door closed, apart of course from adjusting the window stop. |
Great. I'll give ti a go and take some pictures of my setup and results.
One last question, Which side does the beveled head of the rivet go on? In the window channel and I pound the rivet from the other side of the stop or vice versa? |
If I remember correctly the rivet head and stop are both beveled so its obvious how they go.
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If I remember correctly (not quite sure and I don't have the car in front of me,and my memory is not what it used to be) the head goes on the side of the stop. so the hammered part is towards the roll up window.
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Excellent. I'll give it a go on the weekend and post up some pics if I manage to do it successfully.
Thanks for all the advice! J |
Reviving this thread because I'm about to replace the stops on the vent window. I have the entire frame out of the door, does the vent glass have to come out? The stops have a countersunk sunk side to accept the rivet; are the new rivets hammered from the inside of the vent frame or from the moveable window side? Also, I ordered the new copper rivets from Porsche but they (the head side) seem to be quite a bit smaller than the original ones in the frames? TIA.
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OK, have the window disassembled for easy access to the rivets, but again, the new rivets seem to have a smaller diameter and the countersunk flange on the new stop appears to be on the opposite side when compared to the original stop?
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I did this job recently and seem to remember the same issue, but really it's NBD, just put the stop in and align the rivet with the bevel side. Pound away. As long as it sandwiches in there tight, you're good to go
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+^^^ +1, I used an old socket extension and a mallet.
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anybody have any pics of this process.? Have an original 71 and don't see any of these brackets anywhere, did a 71 Targa come with them.?
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Thanks guys. Yes, The new rivets are definitely smaller and on the opposite side. It is what it is, and its just a matter of getting good surface contact while hammering the copper...
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I seem to recall I had a punch that was the perfect size to fit into the channel on the backside and serve as a buck -- so I had a helper hold the rear end of the punch against the rear end of the rivet...with the punch on the ground/concrete, while I hammered the top punch against the rivet.
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Great. So is that the new stop and rivets in the last image? Can you take a photo of the other side? Thanks.
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Sorry to revive and old tread... but I can't find any detailed info, and it's still unclear to me.
I've disassembled everything, and carefully removed the old rivets. But, even after noodling on this for way longer than I care to admit, I can't settle on the proper way to peen in the new rivets. The need for a solid counter in "the channel" is clear, but which side is that? And, which direction does the rivet insert? It's ambiguous to me. There are 2 possible orientations, and 2 possible ends to hammer on. Both the bracket and window frame have tapered holes, so I'm not sure which should receive the tapered head of the rivet. Then, which end of the rivet gets the static support, and which do you hammer on? It seems like the proper orientation and hammering could be important for how tight/secure the result it. Or is it?? http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1727551923.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1727551923.jpg |
I'm curious too. A bit more info in this thread: http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1053880-79-sc-targa-window-seals.html
I think you want orientation #2, with the flat heads on the side where the window channel goes. Mark |
Thanks Mark. I think you are correct. In fact, the diagram in the PET seems to agree.
So then, do you pound the rivet from the tapered Head, with a static block behind the smaller diameter Tail? Or vise-versa? I guess that's the case, since the way the top bracket angles back, you can't get a clean line, with a punch, to the top rivet on the Tail side. Then again, I'm trying to envision how the copper spreads out as you pound it. I dunno. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1727584356.jpg |
I did this a few years ago. I honestly don't remember which side I put the rivet head on. I do remember being worried about messing it up. It turned out that the copper was so easy to hammer that it just spread out and filled in the hole. It wasn't a big deal.
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Finished my wing window caps. For others facing the questions I had and trouble finding info, here's my take:
1. I'm sure the factory had special press tooling for this. The original rivets were so smoothly flush with the rail. I don't see how that can be easily done during replacement. 2. Of the rivet orientation options shown previously, I actually tried both. Getting a clear shot at the rivets was much easier in orientation-1, but I hadn't adequately secured it and it came out loose. On retry, I went with orientation-2. 3. Orientation-2 is what the PET shows, and if I am not careful there's lower risk of damaging the window rail (IMO). I envision possible damage if the punch over-strikes the edge. And, I envision damage to the rail hole perimeter as the rivet spreads out. Unwarranted worries, quite possibly. But... http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1729972926.jpg So, on with my preferred install: 1. Trim the excess rubber from over-mold. The caps I used are aftermarket parts. Maybe Porsche parts don't have this issue?? But, the excess rubber will prevent a solid tight fit, so trim it off. 2. As mentioned, I chose Orientation-2 for the reasons already stated. 3. Find a solid backing plate. I had a small scrap of 1"x1/2" channel iron which fit perfectly. 4. Concoct a sandwich and securely clamp the cap and rail together. In addition to the 1"x1/2" channel iron, the hex handle of an extra punch fit into the back. On the front, a 1/4" nut slipped over the rivet end worked well. Then, a vise grip clamped the assembly together. I think this is pretty helpful while hammering the rivet. Maybe it's not necessary, but in my mind, it helps keep the cap bracket and window channel tight while riveting and ensures a solid result. 5. Rivet the lower one first. Clear punch access to the lower rivet is easy. BTW, the copper rivet is not as soft as I expected from other posts. It required significant impact force. 6. Clear access to the punch the top rivet is interfered by the cap bracket. Punching off-center and off-line is not great, but still works OK. So that's it. And below pics should help illustrate the jumble I wrote. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1729972309.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1729972309.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1729972309.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1729972309.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1729972309.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1729972309.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1729972309.jpg http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1729972309.jpg |
Thanks - that makes it very clear.
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