Detailer burned my paint...What do I do here?

Tremelune · 09-26-2016, 06:01 PM

I have a 1990 BMW that I recently had detailed. The guy I used came with good recommendations, was a very nice guy, seemed to know what he was doing, and generally took his time. He burned three edges:

Now. I think one of these three spots was already burned from before, but I'm certain that one is new. Some panels on the car have been repainted (with clear coat), but most of it is original 25-year-old single-stage paint.

He claims that anyone who polished the car would have burned through as well, because the paint was very thin. He doesn't use a high speed polisher, he uses (I think) a dual action orbital. He spent hours on the car, and most of it looks fantastic.

He knocked $100 off the $450 as a matter of course, and then offered not to charge me when he saw my consternation. He doesn't really think it was his fault, but he does want to make things right. I'm not too concerned about the bill, and will probably pay him regardless, but what I'd really like to know is:

Could this have been avoided?

I'm hoping someone will say "I've been doing this for 30 years, and sometimes there's just no way to get a car shiny without burning an edge. This could have happened to anyone who worked on the paint" because I like the guy, and his service is convenient. I have another car or two I need detailed, and I'm wondering if I should give him another chance.

wildthing · 09-26-2016, 06:09 PM

What products were used? And what was the scope of the job?

azhodge · azhodge's Garage

your paint sucks. don't screw the guy. I have seen high speed burn and this is not it. ps. what are you doing on a Porsche forum...

Tremelune · 09-26-2016, 06:57 PM

I didn't catch the products being used. The scope of the work was to remove oxidation and swirls in some parts, and generally get the car shiny.

Rawknees'Turbo · 07:14 PM

Agreed with Azhodge (about the paint marks; not the forum nannying business

) - that is not what I would call "burned via polishing". What is pictured is red paint that has started to discolor in certain spots due to age, sun exposure, etc. . . . perhaps the polishing process has made the blems more visible, but did not cause what is seen in the pics.

uwanna · 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by azhodge

ps. what are you doing on a Porsche forum...

Aw c'mon! If you check his posts, you will see this PORSCHE OWNER and contributer has about 900 more Porsche related posts than you have. Lighten up!

Tremelune · 09-26-2016, 07:08 PM

The spots were caused by abrasion, at least some of which occurred during the detailing.

Rawknees'Turbo · 09-26-2016, 07:18 PM

^^^

So are the spots down to the primer? If not, it seems like they could be make to look better by further polishing with 3M's Finesse-It II, or similar (a polish that is great for removing abrasions, chemical stains, fine scratches, etc).

SoCalSK8r · 09-26-2016, 07:20 PM

I'm with AZhodge. Polishing by definition removes material. You always run some risk with old paint, especially if it's not all original. Sorry for your misfortune.

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Bleedsblue · 09-26-2016, 07:55 PM

^A good detailer will note if the paint is not safe to polish, either visually or by a paint depth meter, etc. For a $450 service I expect the guy to perform due diligence and maybe say to me, "Hey, this paint is too old and thin to polish, what do you want me to do?" rather than go to town with an orbital.

Rawknees'Turbo · 09-26-2016, 08:23 PM

^^^

Really good point thar, BigBrent!

911pcars · 09-26-2016, 08:48 PM

Experienced detailers typically stay away from panel edges as these are more apt to lose paint to excessive friction from a buffing wheel. The coating thickness is also thinner at panel edges.

However, since he used a low rpm machine (how low?), the damage could have been minimal.
Did he use a wool or foam bonnet? Wool is more aggressive than foam.
How aggressive was the polishing/rubbing compound(s)? That makes a big difference.
There's a trade off between speed and paint removal.

You might get more informed opinions from the folks in the paint and body forum.

Sherwood

DanielDudley · 09-27-2016, 01:07 AM

Seen plenty of videos where the detailer will even go so far as to tape the edges. I was certainly taught that you don't machine buff the edges. Those aren't minor bends in the center of a fender, those are very sharp edges. That's buffing 101 stuff there.

If one spot was already showing. that would certainly be a tip off. He should have caught this.

Personally, I couldn't charge you for this.

Dpmulvan · 09-27-2016, 04:37 AM

Go to the paint forum and talk to 962porsche. A few of the responses would lead me to believe that someone is having a herpes flare.

tirwin · tirwin's Garage

There is an inherent risk that comes with detailing old cars because you don't really know what has been done in the past. Polishing is removing layers of clear coat or single stage. It's naturally going to be thinner in some areas like edges. Professional detailers have a tendency to use techniques that get the most result in the shortest period of time which comes with risk.

I had a spot on my 911 that looked like the single stage paint was thin where someone got too aggressive with a polisher. Thankfully I was able to get it fixed while doing some other work. Every case is a little different though.

Not everyone is used to working on old paint. Someone that is used to it will invest in a good tool to measure paint thickness and adjust their technique accordingly. Or at least warn you there is a risk.

The choice of pad, polish and equipment makes a big difference. Most of the stuff you can buy at the local auto parts store is designed to be very mild abrasives because they don't want the average joe to screw up their paint. A non-DA polisher or even a medium cut polish can take material off in a hurry. Pros tend to use more aggressive techniques because of time constraints and experience.

Burning at an edge means the polisher stayed in the area too long. It's a risk at edges. Like someone said, if there is a known risk then a pro will likely tape an edge.

Joe Bob · Joe Bob's Garage

Red takes the most abuse from ultraviolet light. See a paint specialist. Maybe a touch up will fix it. The fact that it's a Beemer, who cares?

Tremelune · 09-27-2016, 05:30 AM

I appreciate the responses...I forget there was a paint forum. This probably belongs there.

Bleedsblue · 09-27-2016, 06:59 AM

I can't tell what it is. E30? I was a BMW guy before a P-car guy, and still love the things. Though the early Brilliantrot (and even Hellrot) single stage paint is not doing so hot on anything but garaged cars in 2016

Cooper911SC · 09-27-2016, 08:33 AM

I am a professional detailer, have been doing primarily high end cars for 20 years.

One of my favorite things to do is resurrect old oxidized cars.

Many of the above posts are indeed correct.

Old paint with many (unknown) previous polishing cycles. Your first two photos look like "blushing", where the paint has been worn thin so the color is there, but barely covering.

The third pic. is the same, but where the primer shows I would call that a burn. It *may* have happened slowly...a polish through.

The only thing your detailer could/should have done is really inspect the paint and visually identify any areas he thought looked suspect.
Sometimes this is possible, sometimes not.

You said one area was already possibly compromised, if I saw that I would immediately start looking harder at the rest of the car.

I would also use a paint meter on the car to verify thickness.

Next I would have a conversation with the owner to explain what I was seeing and what an appropriate course of action would be.

Generally I take the approach of doing the most conservative amount of polishing to achieve removing oxidation, and removing, or minimizing, light surface scratches and swirls. Then let the wax "hide" the rest and protect the paint.

It is not uncommon to see black and red cars with burned edges or thin spots. These colors show scratches (black) and oxidize rapidly (red).
This leads to many detailers automatically reaching for a buffer or orbital polisher and trying to polish out every imperfection... Meanwhile removing lots of material, and if they are in a hurry or
inexperienced, possibly burning edges.

In your case the only real way to correct the damaged areas is by repainting the panels.

Trying to touch up the areas, other than maybe the one white primer area, will not look very good.

Unfortunately paint does have a life expectancy. We all try to take care of or cars and extend that life, but sometimes that doesn't work out.

I would be somewhat hesitant to use this detailer again. If you do, have him do a walk around on the car with you and talk about what he sees and his thought on how to proceed to achieve the results you are expecting as the owner.

Take care, Cooper

tirwin · tirwin's Garage

^^^ Well said.