Elephant Racing vs. Rebel Racing Suspension Upgrades

[Dave 86 930 Fl]

+1 Rebel Racing

Purchased tons of stuff from him



Clint is a Super awesome down to earth guy... Kinda think of rebel racing as a underdog company out to help people rather than trying to make a buck and that goes along way.



They don't Rebadge their product

You must be a missionary then ... Sorry, just couldn't resist

[JeremyD]

Blonds or Brunettes?

[Rodsrsr]

Rebel

[Plavan]

I like both Clint and Chuck. I had ER Polybronze on my race car for 5+ years plus other ER parts. They worked fine for me. The only issues I have with the ER Polybronze bushings was I kept on losing the Zerk fittings whenever I greased them. They pulled straight out. Very frustrating when you pay that much for a product.
I hate to say it but after 5 years, I was surprised of how gritty/dirty they were inside when I removed them. They were not smooth functioning at all. It seems that the grease compounds the problem, it's letting dirt/grit get stuck in there. You could hear the "grittiness" when you rotated them. I greased them regularly and it was nasty looking inside. I wonder what a street car's looks like after seeing rain/etc. Yes, my car is a race car, but it only saw "Hours" on the track each year, not 10K-15K miles a street car can see. I just makes me wonder.

So thats why I decided to go with Rebel Racing RSR bushings front and rear. Time will tell if those will get all gritty, but I know one thing- I don't have to grease them (or loose a Zerk fitting each time). Plus Clint will replace the bushing material if I ever have problems. +1 for me.

***Please note I am not "Bashing" the Polybronze. I am just relaying my personal experience with them.

[Flieger]

Originally Posted by Plavan

I like both Clint and Chuck. I had ER Polybronze on my race car for 5+ years plus other ER parts. They worked fine for me. The only issues I have with the ER Polybronze bushings was I kept on losing the Zerk fittings whenever I greased them. They pulled straight out. Very frustrating when you pay that much for a product.
I hate to say it but after 5 years, I was surprised of how gritty/dirty they were inside when I removed them. They were not smooth functioning at all. It seems that the grease compounds the problem, it's letting dirt/grit get stuck in there. You could hear the "grittiness" when you rotated them. I greased them regularly and it was nasty looking inside. I wonder what a street car's looks like after seeing rain/etc. Yes, my car is a race car, but it only saw "Hours" on the track each year, not 10K-15K miles a street car can see. I just makes me wonder.

So thats why I decided to go with Rebel Racing RSR bushings front and rear. Time will tell if those will get all gritty, but I know one thing- I don't have to grease them (or loose a Zerk fitting each time). Plus Clint will replace the bushing material if I ever have problems. +1 for me.

***Please note I am not "Bashing" the Polybronze. I am just relaying my personal experience with them.

Interesting. That was one of my concerns (grease holding grit) about the polybronze that led me to the Rebel Racing parts.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Plavan

I like both Clint and Chuck. I had ER Polybronze on my race car for 5+ years plus other ER parts. Plus Clint will replace the bushing material if I ever have problems. +1 for me.

***Please note I am not "Bashing" the Polybronze. I am just relaying my personal experience with them.

I had the same experience. Chuck was good enough to replace my fronts, either free or half price, it was a while ago. The backs were in excellent shape when I parted out my 84 Targa. We talked and he was going to look at some kind of boot but I don't know how far he got with it.

A very dear friend of mine is sending me the RR fronts as he can't use them. I'll be purchasing rears later in February.

On the RR bushings, I have a gut suspicion the bushing material should be changed, like cartridges, once per year depending on how you drive the car.

[Flieger]

Change it when it is worn out.

[Porsche Head]

I am about to pull the trigger on a coilover conversion, yeah!!

Both Clint and Chuck responded and sounded knowledgeable, interesting they both offered up the same spring rates.

I am considering Chuck because 1) They are located close by and 2) Offer a Boge solution for Coilover, Clint does not.

Cliff

[Walt Fricke]

Cliff

Just for grins, what spring rates were suggested to you? And were they for street, race only, or dual purpose?

[ShakinJoe]

I've got the Rebel A-Arm items and some other goodies and I love them. No squeaks, no play and handsome to boot.

My car handles pretty well too and it is truly a track car.

[Flieger]

Way to represent, Joe.

[s_morrison57]

Originally Posted by Jeff Alton

Both make great parts, we have used both for years. My only concern is that when sourcing parts for a customer we tend to go with Elephant as Clint (Rebel) can be difficult to get a hold of at times. When I call Chuck, he is always there or returns my calls/emails promptly.

Cheers

I've heard this quite a lot over a few years.

[Flieger]

Yes, well Clint is a 1-man-band.

[torresmd]

I recently upgraded my entire suspension to coilovers and had every intention of going with a package from Rebel but after multiple attempts and no call backs, I ended up going with Elephant Racing. I think both offer a nice package but I need good customer service. Chuck was great to deal with. Helped me with the installation over the phone and was very patient with me. I recieved the wrong rear coilovers initially and they were replaced and reshipped promptly. Customer service for me is everything.

[10 GT3]

I have Clint's (Rebel Racing) 935 spring plates on my car and they work great with no issues. They also have plenty of travel for adjustment, which I've heard can be an issue with some of the other 935 spring plates out there. Clint also modified my 965 rear calipers. Mine are the ones pictured on the RR website. For Elephant, I have their hard rubber bushings that I used to replace urethane replacements that I did not like once they were on the car. The hard rubber bushings work great with no issues, so I can vouch for both venders. I think you will be fine with either, but Clint will probably be a little easier on the checkbook.

[pksystems]

Rebel needs to give some notice if/when your items ship..... and if something is backordered let you know

[DG624]

The Elephant rear ASP spring system seems to improve an early 911 with more negative camber gain with wheel movement. Although this is an expensive part, it seems to make the older cars handle better. Does this make sense Dave 86? The other unit from Rebel Racing, 935 spring plate, seems similar. Does anyone know the difference?

[Walt Fricke]

The 935 spring plate system does not affect suspension geometry directly. It is only used with coilovers. Coilovers are a plus with a full on race car, because you can get much stiffer rates with them than with torsion bars. And they are easy to change, and make corner balancing and ride height setting a snap.

Plus the heims used at the torsion tube attachment are nicely low on friction. On top of that, you can devise a higher outer pivot point.

935 setups normally also include adjustable (or fixed raised) inner banana arm mounts. This allows quite a bit of flexibility in futzing with roll centers, and the camber change with roll effects too (?). This is normally done in conjunction with raising the outer pivot, to lower the car but keep rates (other than the CG effect) where you want them.

If the ASP is the system where the spring plate is essentially two articulated longitudinal members, I think the jury is still out on how much it helps. I think it is also a coilover only system, but can't remember.

What I do know is that it is not legal for PCA Club Racing. If you are just DE'ing, or race with a venue which doesn't care about such things, then it certainly is an intriguing idea.

You can adjust rear negative gain in the way the 930 Turbo did (and the RSR of that era earlier): shorten the banana arm and move the pivot rearward (and more or less inward, depending). Not a bolt-on deal, to be sure. The RSR banana I think was steel and was cut and welded? The 930 banana was cast shorter. Desireable piece, with $ appropriate to that. You can get kits to weld on fixed relocated inner mounts for that piece.

[DG624]

Walt, I was going to buy the ER spring plate with their polybronze bushings (BSP SCCA). I have about 2 degrees negative camber in the rear but would like to go to 1.5 with a better result for street tire wear. The ER system seems to allow easier suspension changes and better camber gain to reduce static camber. I think this will help an 86 car with limited wheel/tire options.

[winders]

I suspect that the Elephant Racing ASP (Adjustable Spring Plate) would be ruled illegal is BSP if someone protested it. It effectively changes the rear to a multi-link suspension.

Scott