Misfire at Track

[Jim Richards]

It's hard to imagine that Loren's business benefits from his posts on this and his periodic Steve Wong (and his evil chip )-bashing threads. I have never come away from these threads thinking I'd throw any business his way.

[Lorenfb]

"The OP doesn't mention anything about melted plugs or the WOT switch - that's my issue"

- IROC -

Right, it's you that had a problem that appears to be related to the WOT map
as you thought to not run there by disconnecting the WOT switch as that
is where most engine tuning and pushed timing occurs. Since you both use
performance chips AND both report similar engine problems while running under
race conditions, there is a strong similarity in what may be the problem source.
If not, then why did you even comment or post about both using the same chip?
You obviously thought that it was a key factor. You are the one who has
'pointed the finger'.

"This happened to me once (or something similar - also 3.2 with Steve Wong chip"

- IROC -

[Dublinoh]

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

"The OP doesn't mention anything about melted plugs or the WOT switch - that's my issue"

Right, it's you that had a problem that appears to be related to the WOT map
as you thought to not run there by disconnecting the WOT switch as that
is where most engine tuning and pushed timing occurs. Since you both use
performance chips AND both report similar engine problems while running under
race conditions, there is a strong similarity in what may be the problem source.
If not, then why did you even comment?

Glad your up to speed now. He was suggesting that the OP check his plugs, his plug condition was causing his poor performance and idle. He has also stated that his plug problem may have been caused by an inappropriate heat range plug. But you seize on the SW chip. This reminds of an old truism: "If the only tool you have is a hammer, every thing looks like a nail."

[Lorenfb]

"He was suggesting that the OP check his plugs, his plug condition was causing his poor performance and idle."

Let's distort the facts and make it a plug problem, right?
The initial implication was to see if the plug was melted and not whether
the plug itself was the problem.

[Dublinoh]

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

"He was suggesting that the OP check his plugs, his plug condition was causing his poor performance and idle."

Let's distort the facts and make it a plug problem, right?

Yes melted plugs are a problem.

[kslizzy]

Wow, this discussion has really taken a turn.

All I had time to do last night was pull the plugs, while none of them were melted three of them were damp with oil. At the very least I plan to clean them with some brake clean and a wire brush to see if they will begin to arc properly. While at the track Sunday I pulled the distributor cap and quickly looked it over. There is a possibility it could be cracked I’ll look more closely.

For the record I have not posted anything regarding WOT, in fact when it occurred I was coming out of a corner, before WOT. Also, I have had the SW chip in the car for over 6 years with countless track days and autocrosses with no ill effects.

I really do appreciate all the constructive comments and suggestions!

Kris

[IROC]

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

If not, then why did you even comment or post about both using the same chip?
You obviously thought that it was a key factor. You are the one who has
'pointed the finger'.

I commented because I had a similar occurrence at the track and was able to deduce at least something by pulling the plugs. The OP (in his original post) didn't seem to have any idea what was going on, so I suggested pulling the plugs.

You seem to be trying to make more out of this than is really there. I have not pointed any fingers. I was trying to add value to this thread. Adding value does not seem to be your purpose in posting.

[brads911sc]

Loren,

Person A is (claimed to be) an authority on subject S. (that would be you)
Person A makes claim C about subject S. (that would be tuning, not DME and Alternator rebuilds)
Therefore, C is true. (your assuptions on this matter)

This fallacy is committed when the person in question is not a legitimate authority on the subject. (that would be you).
More formally, if person A is not qualified to make reliable claims in subject S, then the argument will be fallacious. (that would be your arguments)

Douche Nozzle.

[Lorenfb]

"This fallacy is committed when the person in question is not a legitimate authority on the subject."

Please! Who on this website is an authority on ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some may make those hyperbolic (BS) claims because they have
a lemming following, but as yet Porsche has not certified any Pelican
Parts poster as a "legitimate authority". Most can't even troubleshoot
and fix very basic Porsche problems, but continue to provide and
comment on issues they have no knowledge of, e.g. 911SC owners
commenting on 911 DME ECM issues.

What a joke!

[brads911sc]

Actually, I run Aftermarket EFI not CIS and i did all my own tuning. Cant say I am an expert. you missed the point. Just making an observation about your jumping on to threads and making factual statements in which you present no proof.

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

e.g. 911SC owners. commenting on 911 DME ECM issues.

What a joke!

[Lorenfb]

"Just making an observation about your jumping on to threads and making factual statements in which you present no proof."

Real data taken from actual personal dyno runs was presented. If the data are not acceptable,
then present your own data to refute my data.

And who on this forum has ever provided anything that might be considered as with "proof"?
And what constitutes "proof"? And who on this forum are the certifiers of "proof"?

Another joke of a statement!

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

"This fallacy is committed when the person in question is not a legitimate authority on the subject."

Please! Who on this website is an authority on ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What a joke!

Ahh, yes - and now the Red Herring.

If you can't address the subject, change it!

Classic use of logical fallacy. Your last sentence does sum up your Pelican participation nicely, however. Bravo.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

Real data taken from actual personal dyno runs was presented. If the data are not acceptable,
then present your own data to refute my data.

Another joke of a statement!

Reversal of burden of proof?

No, Loren, it is still up to you to provide credible data to support your contention. If your data are not credible, then you lose the argument. It's still all on you to present credible evidence. Otherwise, people will just point and laugh.

[Lorenfb]

"If you can't address the subject"

- SiberUr56 -

And where have you addressed anything of merit with your 508 posts since 8/2011 other
the BS that goes on the OT forum. Do we need to reference any of your great wisdom posts
or lack of them to see where your head is? Tell us what's the best 911 polish is, please?
That's your level!

[island911]

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

...

Please! Who on this website is an authority on ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some may make those hyperbolic (BS) claims because they have
a lemming following, but as yet Porsche has not certified any Pelican
Parts poster as a "legitimate authority". Most can't even troubleshoot
and fix very basic Porsche problems, but continue to provide and
comment on issues they have no knowledge of, e.g. 911SC owners
commenting on 911 DME ECM issues.

What a joke!

Apparently the joke is on your critical thinking skillz.

That is Ownership (of a DME 911) does NOT make anyone an expert on the subject. That should be obvious, but since it's not for you, ...meh, forgetaboutit...

Loren, I have a distant memory of reading something useful from you on another board, and wondering; but why is Loren such an ass on Pelican?
At this point, It doesn't matter. All you do here is drop turds in the pool. --SO now, when I read your posts, I think: No, that is NOT a Baby Ruth bar floating there. ...move along.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Lorenfb

"If you can't address the subject"

- SiberUr56 -

And where have you addressed anything of merit with your 508 posts since 8/2011 other
the BS that goes on the OT forum.

Ahhh, and now the ad hominem logical fallacy. You do understand that most thinking people can recognize that you attacking me in no way supports your own position. In fact, it damages your credibility even further. I'm not sure if that's really possible at this point, but I digress.

And now, since the internet logical fallacy progression is in full swing, it's time for you to construct the Straw Man.

Anything to avoid actually having to support your own contentions. Right, Loren?

[ant7]

The bottom line is Loren, going on past threads you have tried for what ever reason for years to discredit 911 tuners, one in paticular Steve Wong, why, ? the man obviously has talent and a real passion for tuning the 911, especialy those fitted with DME management systems, he has many followers, in the world of racing, and street/daily drivers, anyone that has posted here has had a positive experience with Steve, yes, he's a business man, just like you, and many of the rest of us, but its what we choose as a business that devides us or unites us, what is it that realy gets you in such a state that you continue with all this ? Yes, i have a SW chip in my 3.2, why did i contact Steve, because compared to earlier 3.0 ltr 911's i have owned, the 3.2 seemed tame, lifeless in comparison, i knew by reading many reports that there was more to be had from this car, hence the reason for lookin at the chip tuning route, now if you think for one minuite that i just jumped in with both feet without first researching what i might be getting into you'd be so far from the truth. The more i read about 911 chip tuning, the more Steve Wong's name kept cropping up, and it was all good. Since fitting the chip that i specificaly asked for, the car feels more lively, eager to go, and is much easier to drive, also, when i took it for an MOT this week, the emisions were incredibly low for a 1985 car. So, all in all, i think my homework paid off, what do you think. Seriously, i got pretty much what i asked for,ie; a car that felt more lively, and easier, and more enjoyable to drive.

Anthony...
PS, i should add that my experiences above should all be taken as "so far so good" if i have an issue that i feel is related to the chip at a later date, you will hear about it, just to be fair.

[tshebib]

SOOOO..... Kris, Don`t get discouraged and don`t forget about those of us who rely on this forum to increase our knowledge and ability to solve problems when they arise. Once you figure out what is causing the problem, please let us know. I have learned more about my car from this forum than any other source.
Thanks, Tom

[kidrock]

"Please! Who on this website is an authority on ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Some may make those hyperbolic (BS) claims because they have
a lemming following, but as yet Porsche has not certified any Pelican
Parts poster as a "legitimate authority"."

- Lorenfb -

That's a pretty broad statement there, cowboy....I'm assuming you're including yourself as one of us who are not a "legitimate authority"??? Or are you the only "legitimate authority" as deigned by Porsche???

The more diatribe you post, the more customers you drive away.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by kidrock

That's a pretty broad statement there, cowboy....I'm assuming you're including yourself as one of us who are not a "legitimate authority"??? Or are you the only "legitimate authority" as deigned by Porsche???

The more diatribe you post, the more customers you drive away.

Funny thing - I first learned about SW from Loren. I was reasding one of Loren's threads, and SW was mentioned. The more Loren denigrated SW, the more interested I became.

Ultimately, it was Loren who sold me on a SW chip. I wonder if he recognizes irony?