What exactly is "full leather" and how do you know if a car has it?

[McLovin]

You were right about the pic! Hard to see much detail.

One weird thing is there are no electrical controls on the passenger seat. I thought by '87, Carreras had partial electric seats as standard.

[r-mm]

Point taken.
Were the front seats leather on all US Carreras? So when you say not available in vinyl you mean that the back seats, doors etc were not available in matching vinyl thus making full leather the only option for lipstick red?

[McLovin]

Yes, by 87 the front seats were "partial leather" as standard. This means just the "seating surfaces" were leather. The side panels and back panel was vinyl.

In the standard '87, the only things that were leather were the partial leather front seats, the shift knob and boot, and the steering wheel.

Here's a pic of the panels and pulls from a lipstick red full leather car. You can see the stitching on the door pull and the tops of the storage compartments.

[JAR0023]

Originally Posted by javadog

Fulll leather interiors in that era included all surfaces of all four seats, the door panels, rear quarter panels, door pulls, door pocket lids, lower dash trim, upper door and quarter panel trim, rear parcel shelf and (in some years) the dash. Yeah, you got a leather shifter boot, too.

There was an option in some years/markets for everything to be leather but the upper trim, dash, etc. to be vinyl. This option was intended for hot, sunny climates.

JR

I think I have one of your hot climate cars. My 86 was originally sold new in CA. Maybe one of the POs swapped things around but there is nothing in my stack of documentation. Prussian blue outside and navy blue inside. Seats front and rear, door pulls, arm rest tops, door pocket trim, console, shift boot are all blue leather. Dash, door tops, door cards, inner quarter trim, headliner is all blue vinyl. Knee pads are black vinyl.

-J

[javadog]

I no longer have my factory sample book, so I can't tell you everything there is to know about a 911 interior of that era. I'll cover some basics.

Not all Carreras had leather seats. That's what we normally see, but lots of other options existed. Some of this is generic to all years. If you want specifics, you'll have to research exactly what options were available in a particular market and in a particular year. There were dozens upon dozens of possible combinations.

Once upon a time, the stock seat was all leatherette (vinyl). This could be had in combination with some sort of cloth inserts in the center of the seats. Or, you could have gotten leather seating surfaces, with the sides and backs of the seats in vinyl. You could get all leather front seats, with everything else in the interior in vinyl. Or leather front seats, with cloth inserts.

You could also graduate up to a full leather interior. Originally this did not include the door pulls, door pocket lids, etc. By the mid-80's, you got those things too. Usually you got a leather dash, although they discontinued these in the late 80's. Don't remember the year...

A leather headliner was not included. I've heard of people claiming they had one but I have never seen one and I've owned 4 cars from this era that had full leather interiors.

I'll make a distinction between full leather interiors and special leather interiors. Full leather was available in the same basic colors as the vinyl. Special leather interiors were colors (like Lipstick Red) that were only available in leather.

In some markets, in some years, you could also get a full leather interior that replaced some of the leather on the upper surfaces with vinyl, to prevent the problems that occurred with heavy sun exposure to leather.

In general, most markets around the world had the same options but the importer often specified things in one market as standard that might have been an option elsewhere.

SO, if you want to figure out exactly what might have been possible on an 1987 in the US, find a brochure from that year and study it. Not all of the possiblities will be listed but it's a starting point.

JR

[r-mm]

Thanks very much javadog - this incredibly useful. I'll direct future askers to this post if I see the question repeated.

Originally Posted by javadog

I no longer have my factory sample book, so I can't tell you everything there is to know about a 911 interior of that era. I'll cover some basics.

Not all Carreras had leather seats. That's what we normally see, but lots of other options existed. Some of this is generic to all years. If you want specifics, you'll have to research exactly what options were available in a particular market and in a particular year. There were dozens upon dozens of possible combinations.

Once upon a time, the stock seat was all leatherette (vinyl). This could be had in combination with some sort of cloth inserts in the center of the seats. Or, you could have gotten leather seating surfaces, with the sides and backs of the seats in vinyl. You could get all leather front seats, with everything else in the interior in vinyl. Or leather front seats, with cloth inserts.

You could also graduate up to a full leather interior. Originally this did not include the door pulls, door pocket lids, etc. By the mid-80's, you got those things too. Usually you got a leather dash, although they discontinued these in the late 80's. Don't remember the year...

A leather headliner was not included. I've heard of people claiming they had one but I have never seen one and I've owned 4 cars from this era that had full leather interiors.

I'll make a distinction between full leather interiors and special leather interiors. Full leather was available in the same basic colors as the vinyl. Special leather interiors were colors (like Lipstick Red) that were only available in leather.

In some markets, in some years, you could also get a full leather interior that replaced some of the leather on the upper surfaces with vinyl, to prevent the problems that occurred with heavy sun exposure to leather.

In general, most markets around the world had the same options but the importer often specified things in one market as standard that might have been an option elsewhere.

SO, if you want to figure out exactly what might have been possible on an 1987 in the US, find a brochure from that year and study it. Not all of the possiblities will be listed but it's a starting point.

JR

[javadog]

Originally Posted by JAR0023

I think I have one of your hot climate cars. My 86 was originally sold new in CA. Maybe one of the POs swapped things around but there is nothing in my stack of documentation. Prussian blue outside and navy blue inside. Seats front and rear, door pulls, arm rest tops, door pocket trim, console, shift boot are all blue leather. Dash, door tops, door cards, inner quarter trim, headliner is all blue vinyl. Knee pads are black vinyl.

-J

Nah, that sounds more like a car that just has leather seats, front and rear.

JR

[RatBox]

As far as I know , leder covered door pockets & door handles were Sonderwunch (maybe I was incorrect ?).

If not , please least a factory referance including them in any normal package.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by RatBox

As far as I know , leder covered door pockets & door handles were Sonderwunch (maybe I was incorrect ?).

If not , please least a factory referance including them in any normal package.

No, after a certain year, they came with some of the leather interiors. I'm sure they may have been available in that program but they were also part of normal option packages.

Here's a full leather interior in a special leather color (Can Can Red, from 1986):



A couple things I'll point out in this photo... Note the leather covering on the front of the console. Also, note the leather covering in the lower half of the B pillar. The upper half, as well as the covering on the A pillar was vinyl. It's hard to see but there is also a small strip of leather at the rear edge of the carpeted front kick panels.

JR

[r-mm]

That interior is everything I desire. Have you seen lipstick and can-can in person? Are they similar? I've heard a few times that lobster is a bit orange, but from what I've seen both lipstick and can-can seem to be very saturated, pure reds - is that right?

[javadog]

In contrast, here's a full leather interior from 1980. It's in a standard color that was also available in leatherette. In this era, the door handles and door pocket lids were as standard. You also just barely make out the piping on the seam in the leather dash.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by r-mm

That interior is everything I desire. Have you seen lipstick and can-can in person? Are they similar? I've heard a few times that lobster is a bit orange, but from what I've seen both lipstick and can-can seem to be very saturated, pure reds - is that right?

That Can Can red interior is from a turbo I bought new in 1986. I owned it for 25 years, so I'm pretty familiar with it, you might say. It's a very bright color in the sunlight and it is a more subdued red in shadow.

Lobster has a little more orange/brown in it. Lipstick is pretty bright, with a little more of a bluish/magenta hue.

Can Can is my favorite.

JR

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by javadog

Not all Carreras had leather seats. That's what we normally see, but lots of other options existed. Some of this is generic to all years. If you want specifics, you'll have to research exactly what options were available in a particular market and in a particular year. There were dozens upon dozens of possible combinations.

Once upon a time, the stock seat was all leatherette (vinyl). This could be had in combination with some sort of cloth inserts in the center of the seats. Or, you could have gotten leather seating surfaces, with the sides and backs of the seats in vinyl. You could get all leather front seats, with everything else in the interior in vinyl. Or leather front seats, with cloth inserts.

True, non-standard setups could be ordered.

But the "standard equipment" setup for '87 (and up) was the "partial leather" interior - seating surfaces on front seats (shown as "partial leather seats" on the window sticker), shift knob and boot, and steering wheel in leather, everything else is vinyl.



I've always wanted a "full leather" interior (dash, door pulls, everything!), but they seem to be pretty rare, esp. in the G50 cars for some reason. I think the vast majority of these cars were not special ordered, but were built by porsche, shipped over, and sold off the lot.

[McLovin]

That red on red 930 is so cool looking!

I'd go for a matching red leather dash, steering wheel and knee panels, though!

[darrin]

the partial leather on my '86 targa didn't include the shift knob (front seat surfaces, shift boot and steering wheel only)

[r-mm]

Originally Posted by McLovin

That red on red 930 is so cool looking!

I'd go for a matching red leather dash, steering wheel and knee panels, though!

Gotta disagree... the black dash always feels the cleanest and sportiest to me. That 930 (and the one I'm looking at) have just the perfect amount of indulgence - red below the belt - just perfect.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by McLovin

But the "standard equipment" setup for '87 (and up) was the "partial leather" interior - seating surfaces on front seats (shown as "partial leather seats" on the window sticker), shift knob and boot, and steering wheel in leather, everything else is vinyl..... I think the vast majority of these cars were not special ordered, but were built by porsche, shipped over, and sold off the lot.

That's what I mean by market variations. There have been years that VWOA/ PCNA/whoever has decreed that we'd get certain "options" as standard. Others might as well have been standard. You almost never see a cloth interior on a US car, simply because nobody ever ordered one. That brings me to...

Most cars were ordered by the sales managers at dealerships. Few customers ordered cars and Porsche never just sent a dealer "something". Sales managers typically didn't load the cars down too heavy with options and almost never went for the wild colors, inside or out.

Originally Posted by McLovin

I'd go for a matching red leather dash, steering wheel and knee panels, though!

You wouldn't have wanted a red dash. Too many reflections in the windshield. Ditto for the steering wheel. Red dash lower trim was a possiblity, as was black carpet.

Originally Posted by darrin

the partial leather on my '86 targa didn't include the shift knob (front seat surfaces, shift boot and steering wheel only)

In '86, you got a plastic shift knob. Porsche started with the leather knobs when the G50 gearbox came out. It has to do with how the knob attaches to the lever.

JR

[RatBox]

Interesting thread . I quess what I am thinking of was earlier 80's. I've seen a ROW 80 (or 81 ?) 930 with (factory) full leather : seats F & R , door panels F & R , dash , kneepads & ashtray , door pocket tops , door handles , shift boot cover .

I always assumed (and from checking parts books at some point - I believe) that it was Sonderw.

*note...now that I think on it. This 930 was a 1982MY I believe. The seats were both 2 button elect. & heated. With the later back side bolster contour (sport) . When were these originally produced made for the very first time ?

[javadog]

One more thing... there came a point in time where Porsche was making a ton of money and figured out that options were extremely profitable. They started adding line item options for adding leather to just about anything in the interior. Switches, vents, gauge faces, you name it. It was not discussed in the brochures but the dealers had order forms and price lists that included the info. If you've read the January issue of Panorama, there's a turbo in there that had pretty much all of those options, plus some that were added through the special wishes program.

You could blow $20K on leather, easy.

Not to mention, you could always order "interior to sample" and they'd upholster in it whatever color you wanted.

JR

[RatBox]

added info. & question to last post

thx