My Low-Mileage '88 Venetian Blue Coupe

[andy_uranium]

Beautiful car. Looking for one right now.

[tig]

A pic a friend of mine subtly enhanced.

[tig]

Remember, I bought this car in the Spring of 1997 with only 6808 miles on it.

It had 1990 license plate tabs. Who knows if the fact that it sat for so long contributed, but the fact is the valve-guides were worn. Here's the story...

Originally written in the Fall of 1997
On Thursday, June 19, 1997 I sent the following message to the Porschefans Mailing List:

Ugh. When I bought my '88 Coupe about a month ago it had 6800 miles on it. The dealer, as part of the purchase did a valve job just to ensure everything was up to snuff (and because I complained that I thought I heard valve noise during my test drives). The valve noise was not cured by the original job and this week the dealer agreed to do the job again (assuming they had missed a valve or something).

They did the work today, and claim that the valves are adjusted as they should be. They claim that my valve guides look worn. This car now has only 8400 miles on it!!! How could this be?!?!?

The service manager's suggestion is that I just drive it like this for a while and eventually get a top-end job done (~$2000!!! Eeeeek! My wife's gonna kill me!).

Questions I asked, and answers I received:
Q: Will they get worse (I think the noise *has* gotten worse since I've owned the car)?
A: Probably.

Q: When do I know I really need the top end job done?
When the valves get REALLY noisy?
A: I don't have a good answer for you. Sorry.

Q: If they get worse, will they cause more damage (making a top-end job even more expensive or even ruining the engine)?
A: Possibly.

Q: What should I do?
A: I really don't know. You need a top-end job.

Q: But the car only has 8400 miles on it!?!?
A: I know, I've never seen anything like this.

This bites. Does anyone have any opinions (stupid question for this list ) on what I should do? I don't remember reading anything in the 1000s of pages I've read about 911s where this era of car had any sort of chronic valve guide problem.
What could have caused the guides to wear like this?

I got several good responses, including the (apparently canned) response from Bruce Anderson:

Hi,
The oil consumption specified by Porsche for the Carrera 3.2 engines is 1.5 liters per 1000 Km (or approximately 1.6 quarts per 620 miles). I consider this to be excessive, so your 3 quarts per 1,000 miles is completely out of hand.

Over the past decade there have been a number of different theories on why the intake valve guides and/or valve stems are wearing out on the Carrera 3.2 engines, we never saw the earlier 911 engines with intake valve or valve guide problems. The latest theory, offered by a couple of my friends; Ted Robinson of German Precision and Dwight Mitchell of Autosport Technology is that the wear is caused by the Viton valve stem seals used on these engines.

The theory is that they work too well and prevent the guides from getting adequate lubrication causing the intake valves and guides to prematurely wear out. Usually sometime between 40,000 miles and 60,000 miles this wear shows up and by then the valve stems seals themselves have also worn out and the engines will have excessive oil consumption, plug fouling and all the rest.

Usually a good indication of worn valve guides is noisy valves, the valves should be quiet on a 911 after they have been adjusted. If the valves are noisy you should have your mechanic check the valves for valve guide wear. You can check the valve guide wear by pushing the valves from side to side with a screw driver with the valve just lifted off of the seat a few millimeters (about 10 mm). You can actually judge how worn the guides are with this method.

-Bruce Anderson

From this I gleaned that some 3.2 liter Carrera's have been seen with premature valve guide wear, but usually at around 40,000 miles or so. Nobody has ever seen this problem on a car as "young" as mine.

I went to the dealer and asked them what they could do to help me. I told them that I felt that Porsche and/or the dealer should pay for at least part of the repair cost (which was now estimated to be around $3500!). The dealer said they would cover 30%. To me this meant that they would simply not make a profit. So I wrote a nice letter to Porsche Cars of North America. I explained my situation, including an excerpt from Bruce Anderson's email. Soon I received a reply telling me that they valued me as a Porsche customer and the dealer had their full authority to "take care of me". With this letter in hand I returned to my dealer and was told that together Porsche and the dealer would cover 60% of the cost. This, I could live with.

I mean, it's not like the car is still under warranty. It is 10 years old and Porsche certainly had no technical obligation to pay for the repair. But there is clearly a problem that could be only caused by a defect in workmanship or materials. So I took them up on their offer.

I dropped the car off on November 12 (I waited until the weather around Seattle was supposed to turn bad...as it turns out we had a beautiful stretch. Sigh.) The service manager said it would take about 10 days. I asked the service manager to call me when they had the car disassembled so I could come in and check it out. When they called and I went in I took a bunch of pictures with my digital camera. The heads had already been sent off for work so I couldn't see them (or the valve guides) but I was able to see the rest of the engine and transmission in it's disassembled state. Cool.

As I expected the mechanic found a few other things that "needed work". For example, he felt that it would be a good idea to replace an oil return hose. He also noted that there was a service bulletin on the G50 transmission. Apparently the shaft for the "throwout fork" (see image 14) had a poor bearing design. The service bulletin calls for machining in a new bearing race in the lateral shaft, and this can greatly improve the life of the clutch. Since my clutch only has about 11k miles on it now, I figure the cost of the parts (he's not charging me labor) is worth it. Another item that he fixed was the cylinder head temperature sensor; it was upgraded to the two wire design (the original was a single wire unit that got ground from the cylinder head and was known to be unreliable).

Update!

I got the car back on Saturday, December 6, 1997. I had to pay about $1700. This included 4 intake valves, all 12 valve guides, the clutch update, etc... This was 40% of the total cost. Porsche and the dealer paid the other 60%.

The ticking is gone and the motor feels like new. The clutch feels smoother. I'm completely satisfied and excited to have my car back.


Here are some photos of the teardown:



















Since this incident I've had absolutely no problems with the engine. As far as I can tell it burns zero oil (I've never had to add oil between oil changes; granted I change the oil every six months). There's a tiny leak on one of the valve covers that's developed in the last 2 years...one drop on the garage floor after driving the size of a dime. No valve noise.

[jorijori]

Beautiful car! May I ask how does worn valve guide sound like? something like tek..tek..tek.. ?

TIA

[drodg]

Beautiful car one of my favorite colors

[tig]

Originally Posted by jorijori

Beautiful car! May I ask how does worn valve guide sound like? something like tek..tek..tek.. ?

TIA

Yep, although it's a bit more like 'tik, tik, tik' and it' goes faster with higher RPMs.

[tig]

I changed the transmission fluid today. I've never done it myself and per all the instructions and forum threads I've read online I made the requisite mess.

The tube on the pump I used popped off as I was pumping the new oil in, and it sprayed everywhere; all over me and all over the underside of the car. Next time...

The last time the fliuid was changed was about 5000 miles ago but it was in 2009! Definitely due as I felt shifting was getting rougher and rougher. I was worried that I had perhaps waited too long, but the magnet on the plug has just a little bit of material on it.



Now that I've done it myself, I will do it at least every 24 months as recommended.

[tig]

The weather's been so lovely in Seattle this summer that I've been driving the 911 to work quite a bit. I am loving the Bluetooth enabled head-unit I have in Vlad (my '87 BMW 535is) both for hand's free phone use, and for streaming audio.

Ages ago I put a 3.5mm audio plug in the Porsche connected to aux out of the pre-Bluetooth head unit. But this was clunkly and I couldn't do hand's free phone.

I decided to try one of the inexpensive Bluetooth units you can buy now. I picked this up on Amazon for $39.99 figuring it would be worth a try.

Kinivo BTC450 Bluetooth Hands-Free Car Kit for Cars with Aux Input Jack (3.5 mm) - supports aptX

Installation is a bit of a hack job, but the nice thing is that it's all easily removable for when I show the car.

I used the included double-sided sticky to attach the control/mic unit to the steering column. It's relatively easy to reach while driving and is nice and out of the way.





The unit plugs into a cig lighter outlet and while I hate having something like this mar the look of the dash, it's not too bad, and as I said above, easily removable. The wire to the control/mic unit is stuffed between the knee-kick panel and the dash and the 3.5mm cored to the aux input snakes thorugh the lock hole the glove box.


As I use it more I'll report on how well it performs for hand's free phone use. For audio streamed from the phone it's excellent.

[tig]

I have decided to give the car a 26th birthday present (October, 20 1987) by replacing the dash lights with LEDs. I bought a kit from ETarga here on the fourms and plan on installing it soon. (I also am going to put in some RennSport pedals my son bought me for MY birthday in Sept).

I've been bothered for a while with the fact that I can't hear the turn signal click anymore. Part of this is my ****ty hearing, but I'm sure the relay has just gotten quieter over time. I'm regularly embarrassed to note that I've been driving with my blinkers on :-)

Am I right that putting a new relay in make the click loud again? Seems like an obvious thing to do while I have the gauges out to install the LEDs.

[quincydog]

I had the same issue with my 87 targa and replaced the turn signal relay, but there was no change in the audible output of the click sound. If you find a solution, please post.

[tig]

Started installing the RennLine pedal set my son got me for my birthday.

Got the throttle, brake, and clutch pedals installed. Before I re-install the floorboard and install the dead-pedal, I want to make sure I get the adjustment of the throttle pedal right.


(Taken before the clutch/brake pedals were installed).

The RennLine pedal comes with a new shaft for the throttle linkage. The instructions say "cut to fit". I have no idea what the right "fit" is.

As installed, the pedal does seem a bit "high". I think my sole may catch on it when moving my foot from brake to throttle. Anyone else with a similar car want to opine on where the throttle pedal should sit relative to the brake?

[tig]

Time for the fall deep wash & wax.

While I was doing it a buddy dropped by in his E28 to drop off a part I'm buying from him for my E28. Good opportunity to get some late '80s vintage German Car pr0n.



Venetian Blue looks great on dark overcast Seattle days like this.

[MrBonus]

Your car looks great!

[Canada Kev]

You forgot shots of the Beemer, too.

[tig]

My son turned 18 today. He's only previously driven the 911 with me in it (as far as I know ).

Last night I asked him "How would you like to drive the 911 to school tomorrow for your 18th Birthday?".

This morning:



As he drove up our (fairly steep) driveway by my wife & I both yelled "Gas, gas!" as he almost stalled. Tee-hee.

[porsche0nut]

^^ All-star father!

[Jerome74911S]

I hate reading threads like this, because then my '74 looks pathetic in my eyes.

But, I'm happy for you, because it seems as if this car has found a perfect home. That's great.

I'm envious, truth be told. That car is drop-dead gorgeous.

[AshEvan]

Originally Posted by x038F

A pic a friend of mine subtly enhanced.

I saw this pic posted a few years ago, and copied it for one of my screen shots for my laptop. SWEET RIDE

[Nevergrowup]

Originally Posted by AshEvan

I saw this pic posted a few years ago, and copied it for one of my screen shots for my laptop. SWEET RIDE

So did I!

Luckily I got one very similar a couple of years ago, an SC in Pacific Blue.

[tig]

I've long wanted to have an oil analysis done on this car, but just never did it.

A while back I got a Blackstone kit and this weekend I changed the oil and the kit is being sent off today.



I normally change the oil twice a year, but other projects and stuff got in the way and this change is 11 months from the last one. At only 962 miles I'm not too worried about it :-). I am sad that I only put 962 miles on the car since last year. I try to shoot for 1500.

It will be really interesting to see what they report. I'm guessing it will be something like "why the frak are you wasting your money on oil analysis for basically brand-new oil?"

I use Brad Penn 20-50, FWIW.