Best bang for the buck - 3.6 or new exhaust? - Page 2

Doug E · 08-13-2002, 06:33 PM

Good god look what happens when I turn my head and don't log on for a few minutes...

I'll chalk this thread up to the gas fumes from your recent fuel pump replacement and let it go at that.

PORSHIN · 08-13-2002, 06:40 PM

OK guys...I have been keeping an eye on ya. And it's great to see you're still coming down! Now that mine is broken in (5k since the rebuild,) I have really turned it loose a few times and it's running great! I think if I had done what I had considered and went with the 3.4 pistons and cylinders in addition to what I did, it would surpass what you would get from a stock 3.6. One might consider that route!

See you guys on Sunday and round up any one else that wants to come!
Rob

marcesq · marcesq's Garage

Doug:

I'm on the floor. Kelley just asked me what was so funny, and I could'nt answer because I was laughing too hard.

Rob:

Glad to hear she is "loosening up" although that thought is a bit scary after what I saw.

PORSHIN · 08-13-2002, 07:07 PM

HMMMM...Marcesq's Garage and Grill.... I think you may have something there!
By the way, I was out cruising some of my favorite twisty backroads last weekend with my wife and happened to glance in my rear-view to see it full of MR-2! At that time I thought "self, we can't allow this!" A hairpin right, then another left, a quarter mile straight, another switchback and he was no where in sight! I pulled off the road for a little scenery a short time later and here he comes pulling in. He jumps out comes walking over and says "that was the most awsome thing I have ever seen!" He is walking around the car checking it over and my wife said "I think he's going to have an orgasm!" I thought I would die laughing but those are the moments we live for.

marcesq · marcesq's Garage

Dam . . . I'm on the floor again. You guys are killing me

AES · 08-14-2002, 07:54 AM

I keep seeing modified 3.2s compared to stock 3.6s. Don't forget that the 3.6 can be modified also

As was mentioned the lighter weight of the older chassis is difficult to modify into a 993.

The difference will be refinement. I think that the tranplant cars are more go cart kinds of things.

targa911man · targa911man's Garage

Richard--

After all Marc's done for you, now his engine's as big as yours and you have to get a bigger one? You should be ashamed of yourself!

dickster · 08-14-2002, 09:06 AM

aaahh, yer dum ijeot (irish accent).

you sure $3k is enough, from what i've seen here you might add a touch to that.

you gonna have to upgrade brakes and stuff if you keep the 3.2 and use forced induction (what i would do), or put in a 3.6.

why not spend the money on brakes and suspension ready for later?

targa911man · targa911man's Garage

Richard--

Seriously, have you thought about a mass airflow upgrade? Not a huge bang, but way less bucks and hassle than a 3.6 conversion.

Lewis Ledyard · 08-14-2002, 11:14 AM

I am planning to do a 3.6 upgrade to my 1988 cab. My only question is whether it is worth it to spend the extra $3,000 and go for the Euro Varioram engine as opposed to a 1992 3.6? Any thoughts?

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

OK, Dan. How much does a mass flow do for me and where do I get one? I couldn't find them in any of the online catalogues.

marcesq · marcesq's Garage

Lewis:

Make sure you buy a 3.6 that has the head gasket issue fixed. I could be wrong, but 3.6s in the early '90s had no head gasket which resulted in leakage between the cylinder head and cylinder. the fix was new cylinders and heads.

Others can tell you the exact years, and even serial numbers.

Good luck (cured by Varioram years)

Lewis Ledyard · 08-14-2002, 12:13 PM

Dickster:

Thanks. I know that the total will be a lot more than 3Gs, but it looked like the difference between a 1992 3.6 and a Euro Vario would be about $3-4,000. Suspension and brakes have been upgraded. I am a little leary of forced induction, for many reasons, one of them being I don't wanmt to add a a whaletail to house an intercooler.

On another note, does anyone know where I can get a replacement blue dash and steering wheel?

targa911man · targa911man's Garage

Richard--

Start here-- http://autoth.desyne.com/index-2.htm

Or just call 'em. They're on Pickett Rd. in Fairfax.

Jack Olsen · 03:16 PM

Lewis, Dickster isn't talking about the $3000 extra for the non OBD-II version of the 3.6 -- he's talking about the estimate for the complete swap given at the beginning of the thread.

Richard, if you're talking about more bang, then the 3.6 swap is really your only economically meaningful option. MAF and exhaust tweaks will make a difference, but they're really more in the 'whimper' category than the 'bang.' A complete rebuild to get 3.6-style power out of a 3.2 costs a lot of money.

PORSHIN · 08-14-2002, 04:12 PM

In my view, everything everyone is telling you is pretty much true, somewhat swayed by each individual's own preferences, but that gives you an idea of what would wind your personal timex!
Rob

msroadrace · 08-14-2002, 07:02 PM

having done both
here's a few words of wisdom, you cannot beat cubic displacement, plus a big issue you will need to contend with the 3.2 is the #5 main bearing there are some oiling issues to contend with

Mifintifin · 08-14-2002, 08:18 PM

I'll throw in my 2 cents. Go with the 3.6, there is no comparison unless you go turbo. As to the 964, 95-993, or varioram, if you are going to do it yourself, stick to the earlier years. The varioram DME security stuff can be a pain if you don't have any experience. 964 vs. 993, there are pluses and minuses for either. Big plus for the 964 is they cost less initially. Big negative with the 964 is you just can't live with the stock exhaust. No matter what the solution the initial cost goes savings can disappear. HP wise the 993 has a slight edge over a 964 with decent exhaust, but most of it is above 5500 rpm (at least what you can feel). Big plus for the 993, unless you race, is no valve adjusting, which I for one, abhor.

As to the pre 92 head leakage problem, if they were leaking Porsche fixed most of them, and if they weren't leaking they probably still aren't leaking. IMHO, this problem is a overblown myth! Overheating and broken rings are much more realistic worries on these engines, and they are a problem on all of the years, not just the early ones.

I did a spread sheet for JonT that covers all of the conversion details and lets you tinker with all of the itemized costs. Since it covers everything down to new 5.5 inch motor mount bolts, it also is an excellent reality check. Puts the real cost of converting on the table. Ask him to send it to you, I'm working from my laptop and don't have a copy here.

If you are really ready, let me know, I have an engine with your name on it!!!!

Mifintifin

82 SC Coupe (w/993)
83 SC Cab (original)

JonT · 08-14-2002, 08:43 PM

Mifintifin--Good to hear from you --haven't seen you post in awhile. Just to let you know everything is running beautifully still and you are right on about the 3.6--nothing comes close 'cept the turbos and theyre not that much better. Funny reading about all these guys putting their turbos in and having problem after problem. The 3.6 is basically plug and play with a huge shi*(eating grin on your face. Plus you've got a reliable platform to raise the level of performance in the future.

Anyone need the spreadsheet Mifintifin is referring to email me at Jon.Theobald@bp.com.

Keep up the great work Dave!

dickster · 08-14-2002, 11:06 PM

i totally agree with jack's comments.

you don't need to go to an intercooled setup for the turbo. promototive do a very neat stage one setup that slots in where the cat is, and is not noticeable from the top. its a bit over your budget (about US$5k i think from memory), but the 3.6 would have cost that much anyhow, it looks a neat bit of kit and you'll get nearer 300hp. i think by far the easiest, and most, bang for your money.