You guys will love this one:

[Tinton]

Hey, you guys think a construction worker cop is bad, in Aus they are planning for a few cop cars, disguised as taxis.

I would think the only way to spot it is if they dont have their light on and no one is in the cab.

[pwd72s]

George Orwell was optomistic....

[RoninLB]

this thread reminded me to check out the laser jammer called Lidatek Laser Echo..it was being upgraded in April and was due for release May 1..I want a laser jammer...a 911 w/out of state plates/any plates is bear food IMHO...........Ron

[Jim Smolka]

If in a construction zone, one should proceed as fast as possible, thereby reducing the amount of time in the zone, thus reducing the chance of having an accident....

OK, the logic is not correct, but, the idea of the village people out there giving tickets is funny...

[bell]

ron....you need to look into "the blinder" http://www.usblinder.com/ . i just bought one and will have it in within the next couple of weeks. i have one on my boss' vette and all i will say is it works the key is to turn it off once you slow down to legal speed.
my .02

[RoninLB]

being serious..the most logical safety/enforcement that I have seen thru most of this country is when the bear is before the active construction site/after the limit drops with radar..the potential dangerous situation is prevented.. if no active construction happening then no radar tickets to speeders..I found this to be a profile of enforcement..I can't complain about that.........Ron

[Doug E]

Depending on how far away he was, wouldn't the giveaway have been that he was facing toward oncoming traffic? For me that would have sent up a warning flag.

[autobonrun]

A few weeks back, here in Kansas, I noticed my valentine 1 going off. As I rounded the corner, the only thing in sight were two joggers( I mean short pants and t-shirts). When I got up on them one raised a radar gun and aimed it my way. I politely waved as I went by. The expression on their face was priceless. Three police cars were right down the street and had two other cars pulled over.

My valentine gave me plenty of notice but for me it's not an issue anyway in neighborhoods. I make it a point to never speed there because of the kids.

But it goes to show you what they are willing to do to raise revenue.

[APKhaos]

Last week - three early teen boys in the car, 10PM, pulling onto the Dulles Toll Road from the Reston Parway ramp. OK, I acellerated to traffic speed 'briskly', but merged with the flow.

1/2 mile later the blue flash - booked for 74, when every other darn car on the road was cruising this or better. Try explaining that to three boys who are asking why the guys that passed us weren't booked. Kids just don't get the irony, not the 'selectivity' of enforcement. Makes 'em very sceptical.

First moving violation in around 8 years, so I figure I'm well ahead of the game - and I told the boys so!

[dickster]

this is a BIG topic in uk at present and pisses me right off

there is no disputing the fact that unless these guys are visible they are not a deterent (sp?) to cut speed, but will just raise revenue (as some of you guys pointed out). well, thats god damn effing perverse imho. so the cars still dangerously speed (putting construction workers at risk) but at least the city gets a few $$$.

in the uk the issue is with cameras that are supposed to be in accident black spots - only thing is they put them where noone can see them for some reason. now the government has made the decision that they have to be painted bright orange, and/or moved to where they can be seen.

cameras have replaced traffic cops here, which leaves the real criminals, drunk, uninsured etc, free on the roads.

lets face it, its just another tax.

[BYantzer]

Check this out for laws in your area on speed traps
http://www.speedtrap.org/
and for those of you that have already been caught
http://www.helpigotaticket.com/index.html

The only reason i know about these is obvious
94 in a 55

[prattrc]

A few years ago, I was driving south on I-75 in Manatee County, FL (just south of Tampa). It was morning rush hour, but traffic was moderate. We bunched up as we approached a construction zone. In my rear view I saw a black Mitsu Eclipse flying in and out of traffic, weaving back and forth. I muttered to myself, "I hope he gets in an accident." He flew past me and I lost sight of him. A couple of minutes later, traffic came to a near stand still.

I came up to the scene of the accident and was horrified by what I saw. The Eclipse was in the median, upside down, front and rear ends crushed in, totaled. The driver and his two passengers were also in the median (apparently thrown from the car). Passers by had stopped to help, but one of the passengers was already dead, or so I assume, since someone laid a shirt over her face. The other passenger was laying on her side, shaped like an "L" with her legs going the wrong way. She was still moving a bit. The driver was struggling to get up, but someone was holding him down (for his own good, no doubt).

Given the scene and his earlier behavior behind the wheel, I figured he weaved too far to the left and dropped a wheel off the road into the median (there was about a six inch drop from the road to the gravel), then he cut back too hard and rolled the car.

They were so young, probably a couple of years younger than me. I drove the next two hours with the radio off, in virtual hypnosis.

Maybe FHP is trying to stop this sort of thing from happening.

[KTL]

I think there's a little more to it than just revenue.

Speed limits are mostly established by what's considered a safe speed to travel on a given road. Meaning, factors such as road layout (curves, lane sizes, upcoming intersections, construction areas, etc.), avg. reaction time of the typical driver based on a given following distance, traffic density, blah blah blah.........

Point being, the speed limit for a certain road is set at a certain number to allow for reasonably safe travel for all drivers of all vehicles. Yes, the mighty Porsche is more road worthy than many other vehicles out there. That's great. But, one must also consider the drivers of other non-sporting vehicles and the drivers' sometimes less than average driving ability when speed is concerned. So, yeah, the construction zone speed limits suck ass for Porsche drivers when there's no one working. The limits are entirely reasonable for minivan drivers and semi trucks- whether road work is in session or not!

When some fast drivers are putting other motorists at risk, due to the fast driver's inability to manage their vehicle at such speeds or simply being a jerkoff driving too aggressively, something should be done about this selfish behavior. Sure, a visible police cruiser shooting radar can help reduce speeding. I think the phantom surveyor/police officer is better yet. If the offenders are not sure if radar is after them, they'll have to watch their speeds more frequently, no?

As far as i'm concerned, it boils down to helping make the roads safer for more drivers, not just raking in more money for the coppers. Alot of people are just plain a-holes on the roads nowadays, with no regard for anyone but themselves. Screw them I say. If these people aren't decent enough to be considerate of the other drivers or workers on the roads, I think more than just a fine is needed. How about a good punch in the ear?

[RoninLB]

Doug..."Depending on how far away he was, wouldn't the giveaway have been that he was facing toward oncoming traffic? For me that would have sent up a warning flag."
well, generally speaking/writing, the giveaway would have been the Valentine going off, but the K-band site signs could be the trigger..haven't seen any laser at construction sites..and the Hy P usually don't do instant radar at c. sites. The HP usually don't do instant radar anywhere on the big roads, they don't have to..it seems their favorate food is 4-wheelers w/rice burners/camaros/kids cars next. The 911 is a constant target, figuring that you are riding with a detector. The HP can/will go to some effort to tag a 911. They will try to slowly sneak up at nite when you are on a curve watching ahead..or speed way ahead of you and do a laser act 10mi. down the road. I figure 10 miles before a c. site to become cool..I have rarely ever see them completely facing traffic, but the road may allow them to hit traffic from both directions at the same time..I also never become the point man if I'm ridding on a 4 lane thru the site/on any road..I like 1/8-1/4mi behind and travel with the fastest car on the road, hopefully a 4-wheeler in the left lane on a cell..it does become entertainment when the V-1 goes off and the point man gets tagged...................Ron

[724doorE]

If you have a problem slowing down for work zones, maybe you should try standing on the white line with your back to traffic on some busy interstate hwy, say I-95 down south. Not me no way no how!

Slow down, Abbie's dad works there! In IL Abbie's dad works at every work site, he's the guy with the hard hat leaning on the shovel waitin for the guy in the grader to move some dirt

I figure we should slow down in at least one spot, then no one can say we are total *********s! Besides don't you get more points for hitting shall we say less able people than the average male?

OH BTW, I remember the days when, in FLA, they had a trooper in a 5.0 mustang just sitting at every construction zone wihth his lights flashing on northern 95 and the toll road and people slowed down..

[724doorE]

KTL,

Excluding metropolis interstates and all other state roads, weren't all interstate hwys originally designed with a safe speed in mind of 85 mph such that someone in a 50's Newyorker could easily take any bend at 85 while not spilling a glass of water sitting on a flat surface in the rear of the car? This being before the federally mandated 55 mph speed limits and before cars were.... safe! I don't remember my source, but maybe the history channel, I know too much tv.


The funny part that no one has touched on is: when the speed limit was 55, work zone speeds were 45. Now speed limits are between 65-75 and work zones are 55-60. This tells me that the workers have gotten faster in their old age .

I mean if a two lane shift in 11 ft lanes with concrete barriers on both sides was worth 45mph 15 years ago, why is it only worth slowing to 60 now?

[Overpaid Slacker]

KTL --
I think R&T did a great job, years ago, of putting the lie to the notion that speed limits are set (at least on interstates and major highways) based upon some inherent maximum speed. Although every road has theoretical/practical limits at which given vehicle X can "safely" travel, assuming certain conditions, visibility, weather, etc., the legal speed limit is and has been a political contrivance, as 724doorE points out. Granted, certain stretches of road (like the hairpin turn on 95 going through Providence) require lower speeds -- but what of a stretch of road that is exactly the same from one mile to the next (no construction, no additional traffic) where the speed limit goes from 65 to 50 simply because you cross some political (municipal, county, etc.) boundary? Have the laws of physics been changed or repealed in the new jurisdiction, requiring lower velocities?
I agree that there are *****bags out there that imperil others with what I will loosely call, and I use the term strictly without prejudice, their "driving," and they ought to be punished -- and punching them in the ear is totally fine with me. I agree with TimT and many others here that people ought to slow down in construction zones -- as well as when other circumstances/hazards dictate.
My issue, however, is that if the expressed goal is to get people to slow down in construction zones, there are other effective means to do so, without the cagey revenue-enhancement scams that belie a desire for more safety. If the cop is going to be out there all day anyway, have him conspicuously displayed in the cop-lookingest outfit possible, with flashing lights glinting off his shiny badge and a huge radar gun -- that'll get people to slow down.

OK, I'm setting up a straw man here, but bear with me --

Me: Do you want slower, "safer" passage through work zones or do you want revenues?
Them: Both (which is giving "them" a lot of credit for honesty, b/c we know they want revenues... really)
Me: Well, you won't have revenues if people transit work zones slowly and safely b/c there will be nobody to fine.
Them: Well then we'll settle for revenues, and wrap ourselves in the mantle of safety.
-tongue now removed from cheek

Richard used the "Union Zones" joke before I could spring it on TimT, whom I'm sure has heard it before, but he's completely right -- enlarging the region for enhanced revenues is the goal, not safety. Why do you need miles of cones for a stretch of construction that runs a couple hundred yards (or less)? Most road construction moves along at the speed of mammal evolution, so if safety is primary, you can much more compactly define the construction zone on a day-to-day basis, as needed.

I'm stretching an analogy here, but this was the point of the article I linked to yesterday -- cops/pols say that "we're just trying to make the roads safer" but safety is a distant second (at *best*) to the money -- even to the point of fraud and deceit.

Whew. Better check my voicemails and stuff.

-JP

[Joeaksa]

One silly question on this tactic...

When anyone is stopped and charged with speeding on the basis of a radar unit, they have the right to insist on being shown as well as having it proven to them that the radar unit that said they were speeding is within calibration and tested within a certain time frame.

If this guy is standing in a construction zone a mile down the road and radio'ing down the line who to stop, then how is this going to happen? Sure sounds like grounds for a good lawyer to get all of them off on a tech violation...

I do not advocate speeding in any construction zone but as PWD said before, if they were really interested in safety and slowing people down they have used a black and white. Clearly they are going for the cash and points over safety and thats were we have to get creative. Here in Phoenix they put the speed traps in the newspapers...

Long live the Valentine One... after the you are past the construction zone that is...

Joe

[John Brandt]

Article below summs up this topic for me

http://www.motorists.org/stealthis/construction.html[/URL]


This is a good site you should all be aware of

[Overpaid Slacker]

John --

I agree with the five suggestions at the end of that editorial, but the reasoning in the first two paragraphs is a bit open-ended for me.

First, it states that the FHwA "caused" a 38% increase in construction zone fatalities, without providing a causal link. OK, there have been FHwA programs, and OK, there has been an increase in fatalities, but correlation is not necessarily causation and there very well might be other reasons, unrelated to FHwA that resulted in increased fatalities.

Second, while there has been a 38% increase in fatalities, the editorial doesn't tell us whether there was, let's say for the sake of argument, a 100% increase in road construction (measured by miles or sites or whatever) comparing 1995 to 2000. In *that* case, then I/we would've expected roughly 1,578 fatalities (789 doubled) and having only 1,093 fatalities would seem to mean that FHwA programs "prevented" almost 500 deaths in work zones. We just don't know from this editorial whether this is the case or not, or whether there are other variables that have moved.

Third, just picking two years for a comparison always makes me suspicious (and I confess I'm too lazy to dig up the statistics for other years) b/c too often the editorial writer will pick the years most convenient to his bias. What if there were "only" 600 deaths in each of 1998, 1999 and 2001? A trend of increasing traffic fatalities in parallel with increased FHwA implementations would be much more convincing, but this editorial doesn't provide any context other than what's convenient.

I think we're of the same mind on the big-picture, but I just wouldn't rely too heavily on that particular editorial as ammunition.

Obviously it's a particularly slow day at the office here.

Best,

JP