Kirk rollbar install... new pics

[SCWDP911]

This thing is still somewhat temporarily mounted. I am trying to decide if wife is going to mellow on the fact that the kids cannot ride in back now. Anyway, I also am trying to decide on best finish for it. I am leaning towards a leather or vinyl wrap with padding. Or, I have thought about the textured black paint - don't ask, I just think it looks kind of cool. This bar was made by Kirk Racing, and attaches to the floor up front, and the seat belt mounts in rear. Overall, very precise fit - read that as has to be lined up PERFECTLY. I had to take off the hangar hooks from the cab frame in order to raise and lower the top. I like it though and think Kirk has a great product here (gratuitous plug ).

Oops!


Tight fit - but it fits!

[TRE Cup]

nice piece!

[SCWDP911]

The best part is that I am 6'1" (which isn't that tall any more) and I was a little nervous about it being high enough to protect and still using top... That was one of the things I asked the PO about when I inquired about it and he explained that he is a DE instructor and 6'4".

[Rick964]

No real need to put the rear seat belts in when you bolt the bar in place permanently.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

You've done this for the track, right? A rollbar can be a dangerous thing to share a cockpit with when you're unhelmeted and aren't even wearing a serious harness. Yeah, I do it occasionally myself, but my car is mainly used on the track. And don't explain that it's "way behind your head," or "too far away to ever hit." As an EMS volunteer, I see firsthand where heads and bodies go in accidents, and you'd be amazed, particularly during a good hard rear-ender. (Or just watch a crash-test video to see what happens to even a belted driver.)

When you pad it, be sure to use real padding--not the $5-a-foot stuff, which is really just for "that racer look." Buy the $17-a-foot SIFI-rated padding. It won't do a helluva lot of good if you hit it hard without a helmet, but maybe you'll get lucky.

[SCWDP911]

Originally posted by Formerly Steve Wilkinson
You've done this for the track, right? A rollbar can be a dangerous thing to share a cockpit with when you're unhelmeted and aren't even wearing a serious harness. Yeah, I do it occasionally myself, but my car is mainly used on the track. And don't explain that it's "way behind your head," or "too far away to ever hit." As an EMS volunteer, I see firsthand where heads and bodies go in accidents, and you'd be amazed, particularly during a good hard rear-ender. (Or just watch a crash-test video to see what happens to even a belted driver.)

When you pad it, be sure to use real padding--not the $5-a-foot stuff, which is really just for "that racer look." Buy the $17-a-foot SIFI-rated padding. It won't do a helluva lot of good if you hit it hard without a helmet, but maybe you'll get lucky.

Steve,

I got it for the track, but also for general rollover protection. I can see your point about head-to-bar collisions, but what else can you do beside buy a coupe? I am asking this out of genuine concern and interest. Those who have been around the block more times than the rest of us (experience wise) such as Steve, is there an overall consensus on the pro's and con's off a rollbar for street use?

Oh, and yes, when and if the bar goes in "permanently", the belts and rear seats will get stored.

[tonythetarga]

I know you had a tough time fitting it up, but a lot of guys with cabs put the bar in and take it out between events . Much easier to do with a cab than a coupe as your seats shouldn't have to come out to get the bar in/out. Sounds like a hassle but might be a good compromise AND then the kids can ride in the car too.
Are you planning on putting in racing seats and/or harnesses?
Just in case you didn't know, PCA will not allow harnesses without racing seats starting next year.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

Yes, it is a tough question, and I too will be interested to hear what the far more experienced (than I, certainly) drivers will have to say about rollbar use on the street.

Another thing that scares me about roll bars is getting hit really hard from behind--my wife got rear-ended a couple of years ago in her Boxster, she doing zero waiting to make a left turn, the Ford Excursion doing probably 40 or 50 while the driver was turned to deal with the kids in the back seat--and as a result getting slammed in the back, up high, by the crossbar when your seat comes loose or breaks from the impact.

I have a large, custom-made seatback support that clamps to the roll bar for exactly this reason, but then there isn't one for the passenger seat...I suspect I'd have a difficult legal situation if I survived a crash but a passenger died from a broken neck when his or her seat backed into the bar.

[chrisp]

The Kirk guys have been at it a long time but I'll ask anyway. The rear supports are at a very shallow angle to the main hoop. You're not racing so the bar doesn't need to meet any standard but it's always good idea to follow those safety guidelines. I think the standard is a minimum of 30 degrees. Does it meet that?

[chrisp]

still reading....

and even with a seat back brace you need to make sure it's designed for the type of seat you use. The stock seats are a frame with material suspended to provide cushion. If you have a brace back there it's going to punch through in a big impact...like what you described. Ideally you want a really big flat surface for the seat to fall back on. In cars with factory roll over hoops there's either a firewall/bulkhead back there or the hoops are no where near a potentially collapsing seat.

Not only will the cross bar get you across the back but the unpadded hoop will impact the head.

I would say that unless you have one-piece racing shells I would forgo the roll bar. You are far more likely to get in a crash where the seat would collapse (rear ended) or where your body moves enough to impact the bar (recoil from front impact, side impact)

Next best option is to simulate a targa and take out the cross bar and diagonal. Add a diagonal between the rear supports and you will gain a lot of roll over protection while eliminating potential driver-bar impact.

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

Yes, my seat-back brace is large and configured to the back of my Recaro. Not saying it can't punch through, but it's by no means one of those foot-square one-size-fits-all things.

[SCWDP911]

I hope the debate continues, because this is pretty interseting... for me anyway - may be old hat for a lot of you on the board. I appreciate everyone's comments so far... it is a lot to think about.

[ParkerFE]

As a cab owner, I too am interested. What are the "hanger" hooks you said you had to remove? Wasn't a roll-bar option available from Porsche for the cab when new?

[sleepy911]

I have heard the dangers of running a roll bar and getting in a wreck even if it is padded. My question is the A pilliars, B pilliars and on a coupe the space above the door is just vinyl wrapped over steel, no real padding. How is this not dangerous? I would much rather smack my head on a padded 3 inch diameter tube than the B pilliar in my car.