No test drive

[James Ball]

Have you ever been to view a car and then had the seller refuse not only to let you drive it, but even to drive it himself?

I viewed a 74 Carrera 2.7 yesterday which the current owner has restored over 12 years and which he has tried to sell twice, both times the prospective buyer pulled out after months of negotiation. This has made him understandably sceptical about prospective buyers. However, after talking about the car, showing me round the car and answering questions on the car for about 2 hours, which included starting and revving the engine, the owner refused to take it out for a drive. Instead he asked me to "go away and think about it" and then to come back, take another look and take it for a drive then. Now while it is only a 90 minute round tripto see the car I still feel this is a little unusual, but I can't for the life of me see what he would have to gain, other than buy a little time to fix a problem he knows of. The driving issue is also complicated by the fact that the engine has not yet been run in following a top-end rebuild including new rings.

I guess I have 2 questions:

1) How worried should I be about his reluctance to take the car on the road?

2) How can you buy a car with an engine that can't be taken to more than 3000 revs under load? Would this not make it impossible to assess accurately the egine?

Cheers
James

[82SC]

maybe being burned in the past twice makes him weary of people who just want to drive his car around...

maybe he thinks if you make 2 trips you are a serious buyer

maybe he is just crazy

my PO let me have the car for a couple days to see if I liked it and to get a PPI in my area...of course I left my other car there for security

and if you decide to buy you BETTER get a pre-purchase inspection...if he acts fishy walk away...impatience will mess up a 911 purchase...there are LOTS of fish in the sea...it may not seem so now, but if you buy a bad apple your life will suck...and then you will notice there are pleanty of better cars out there for less then you paid


MJ

[MarkY]

Many times on this very board, you hear people giving advice to "drive as many cars as you can". Good advice for a buyer.

However, look at it from a seller's view. This guy is probably being a little cautious and trying to weed out the guys just looking to drive cars.

When I was looking to purchase a 911, I came across a seller that said he would let me drive his car for $100. If I decided to purchase it, he would take the $100 off the price. It was his way of weeding out people just looking to drive cars. Personally, I don't have a problem with it.

[pbs911]

Very wierd indeed!

If it were me, and this is a person's first porsche I would not let them drive it. I would drive it and they could sit in the passanger seat.

When Ibought mine, I had never driven a 911 before, I just knew I wanted one. I hadn't even driven a manual trans in over 10 years. I knew I could not drive it properly and this would affect my opinion of how the car drove. So I just sat in the passanger seat and had the owner drive it both slow and hard. This way I was able to pay more attention to how the car sounds, and feels; plus I could play with all the little things when the car is running and ask the driver to turn on the little things without having to figure out how to do it.

The first time I drove my car was after it was legally mine. And after over three years I'm still trying to figure out how to drive it correctly, on the track of course!

[RANDY P]

Pretty eccentric guy if you ask me. I'd be worried about that top end rebuild if it hasn't even been run-in yet. How long has it been sitting there just getting started and turned off?

You can usually tell who's serious or not by the way the conversation goes, obviously. Why would it take months of negotiation to figure this out? It's a car, not a college for your kid. Sounds like this guy is too much of a PITA for anyone to handle.

Only people I turn away when I'm selling is anyone who sounds non - commital about anything. When they get serious, and ask serious questions then the test drive starts.

Won't take me months to figure it out though, guaranteed.

rjp

[RANDY P]

Funny -

my purchase was just like PBS911's

The first time I sat in the driver's seat was after the money changed hands. But then again, I got to ride in the car for a 1/2 hour. Got the PPI, and voila, a Porsche purchase, no drama. I don't screw around when I'm in the market, and if I'm driving, that means I'm gonna buy assuming it checks out. Price is also negotiated by that time as well. Maybe you can go straght to the point and tell 'em "Hey man, I got $$$, quit screwing with me and take me around!" Tell him you're a deal if it checks out with the butt - dyno and the mechanic. That's irritating dealing with wishy - washy sellers.


rjp

[nostatic]

odd sales style but could be ok. He did say if you came back again you could drive it, so I don't think he's hiding anything...more that he just doesn't want to waste time with lookers.

Everyone has their own style of buying *and* selling. If you asked people for their stories here, you'd probably get everything from buying the car sight unseen, to getting the car for a few days to "try out", to someone changing their mind many times and agonizing over the decision (guilty as charged).

If you like the car, it is worth going back. If he doesn't let you drive it the second time, THEN you should demand that he reimburse you for traveling expenses.

[Don Plumley]

Sounds like a Faulty Towers episode....oh wait, you're in England - sorry!

I guess he's playing a kind of wierd game of hard to get. Or maybe he's read this board and thought you were Nostatic (sorry Todd - couldn't resist!).

I agree that not being able to test the engine under load is an issue. Can you talk to/visit the wrench that did the rebuild - does he have all receipts?

And what is it about his selling process that requires months of negotiations? Once I decided to buy my car, it took oh, maybe five minutes - only because I didn't want to seem too eager.

FWIW: Like DR. Sopp, the first Porsche I looked at (and bought) was, uh, the first Porsche I looked at. And the owner was a bit on the particular side (big hint - all garage items in plastic boxes with p-touch contents labels on the outside) - so I declined to drive it at first. Only with his insistence did I venture behind the wheel and I was so nervous I doubt that I benefited from the experience (in a mechanical evaluation sense), other than I knew I had to have one.

I'm curious to know how this turns out...

[Bill Douglas]

James, maybe get the good guys at Ruf GB in Weighbridge to look at and drive the car. They know more about what is appropriate revs and load for the car than the seller does. And can treat the car in such a way that it answers your questions while accommodating the seller’s reservations. Also, if the chap has done the restoration himself there may be a lot of things amateurishly done that Ruf GB will point out. Tell them Bill Douglas in New Zealand sent you along

[howie944]

This may rate as the most ideal purchase situation ever. Me ...two car garage one car...He... two car garage 4 cars and a bunch of junk in garage parking 911 on street...Told him hey I can't bear to see that thing sitting on the street ...If you want you can park it in my garage. Well it was parked in my gargar for 6 months and he was gracious enough to say "Drive it whenever you want to". Even gave me a tow company credit card in case of trouble. Had time to go over every nut and bolt. Deal was struck and now I own it and have for almost 5 years! We reamain great friends even though he darn near gave the car to me!

[BlueSkyJaunte]

One of the targas I test drove many years ago was the rattiest, stinkiest, hit-in-the-rear-so-the-decklid-didn't-line-up-est, cracked-dash-est, ugliest POS I've ever had the displeasure to drive. The owner insisted in going along with my wife and me on the test drive (wedging himself into the back seat), and managed to look truly nervous that I'd "damage" his "baby" at every turn, start, stop, straight, etc. He then had the cojones to pull me aside after the test drive and tell me sotto voce, "The ladies love it!"

On the other hand I drove a really nice '80 coupe; the owner scolded me after I brought it back from a quick spin around the block. He said I should go out and drive it around some more. Only reason I didn't buy that vehicle was the disagreement my head had with the sunroof. I still wonder if that wasn't a mistake...he was willing to deal and I would have been able to buy some really nice seats with the difference from what I paid for my current targa!

Takes all kinds. I wouldn't be surprised if this seller of yours is simply trying to weed out the less-than-serious.

[speeder]

If I were selling my car, I would not give out test drives w/o some serious discussion beforehand, (including whether they had driven a 911 before), but this guy is too much, IMO. He certainly could have taken you for a ride at least. As for the break-in of his motor, WTF was that? Every 911 ever made goes straight from the assembly line to the track flat-out for butt dyno testing by a factory driver. In fact the motors are so well made that there was virtually NO break-in procedure in those days other than drive it and bring it back for the 1000 mile check-up. I realize that a rebuild may be different, but 3000rpms?? And why doesn't he run it in if he is selling? This guy needs a good slap, then he'll be good as new.

Nobody, (except a couple of previous posters), can be expected to shell out substantial hard earned cash for a (very) used car w/o driving it first. That is ridiculous, also IMO.

[James Ball]

Thanks for all the advice. It was good to hear of some other strange viewing/buying experiences.

Re testing the engine under load - the seller did the rebuild himself, so unfortunately there is no mechanic to talk to.

The other buyers that pulled out after months of negotiation both sounded a bit odd. They both wanted to export the car and both had trouble with tax etc. It seems strange but from what I can gather Carrera 2.7s have gone up in value a fair bit in the UK recently and now owners are having trouble selling them. It is as if the "cognescenti" know they should be more valuable than they are, as a result owners have jacked their prices up, but the buying public just doesn't agree. 3 of the 4 Carrera 2.7s that I know of on the market in the UK at the moment have all failed to sell at the first time of advertising and are being re-advertised - unfortunately only at a slightly reduced price.

I agree with most of you that this guy is just a bit cautious. My plan is to have a look at a couple of other cars I know of and then if need be go back and re-visit (and hopefully test drive!) this car.

Thanks again.
James